Reading about another death on Everest.

[lumpy]

My sense is that the Nepal tourism ministry operates on a strictly revenue-maximizing model, and doesn't care about waste or corpse removal. They give it lip service but haven't done much. The Sherpas are organizing, and demanding and getting wage increases. The wild card is China's increasing allowance of permits from the Tibet side on similar terms to what Nepal has done. Good info here: What's Being Done About Trash (and Bodies) on Everest | Outside Online

The whole Everest tourism thing strikes me as something far removed from the things I like about mountaineering (although I'm really not a mountaineer). No decision making, no self reliance, no discovery. In 2018 it was only climbed by the two "trade routes." But it's pretty typical that the biggest mountain gets tons of people and the smaller ones are left for those who want a more solitary mountain experience.

My uncle Dave was part of one of the early American expeditions from the Tibet side, a March 1983 attempt on the West Ridge. They were driven off by weather and sickness. An Attempt on Everest's West Ridge from Tibet - AAC Publications - Search The American Alpine Journal and Accidents

[slwrnu]

Yes, I am not going back to The Himalaya again, there are so many brilliant 4000 ers in europe they are plenty hard, but you can stay in a refuge, eat a reasonable meal, take your hut slippers and a silk liner for your bag. Ear plugs recommended. for you or your roommates. regards

[Tom]

"No decision making no self reliance no discovery". Thank you, I was searching for why this situation was off putting to me and this crystallized why to me if I wanted this kind of test another mountain would be where I sought it. It seems that to many the venue is more than the thing.

[BBB]

How to return dignity to the sullied icon that is Everest

An interesting perspective and proposal.

[Peter Polack]

How to return dignity to the sullied icon that is Everest

An interesting perspective and proposal.

The article makes sense; people need to qualify for the Boston Marathon, no?

[slwrnu]

Mont Blanc is almost as bad. I saw people trying to climb it in trainers, it is an easy but slippery route up from the Gouter Refuge, so if you fall you will die. We left the crowded hut at about 0230, just a long line of head torches for 4 hours. Boring. Because it is "only" c4800m, there are very few deaths from altitude sickness, rather if you slip off the path your body will end up at least 1500 meters lower. We always take a guide, who will check down the valley that everyone is able to look after each other.

[vertical_doug]

I read this thread as just a first world problem. If Nepal and China want to maximize revenue on the mountain, they should. I think they should take permitting even higher, and tack on extra fees like garbage removal at the end of season. Heck, I'd suggest they make inexperienced climbers pay a big body deposit, were if you die the money is forfeited and used to try to recover the body. I don't think this will be possible for the bodies in the death zone, but any reason to tack on more fees seems reasonable to me. I am surprised the stories about oxygen bottle theft at the high camps hasn't gone viral yet.

No one has the right to climb the mountain. You don't even have to earn it. I think the title of Lionel Terray's book sums up my feelings perfectly- Conquistadors of the Useless.

I never liked Nepal that much and always preferred the Garwhal himalayas in India. I basically came to realize we are all schmucks when a friend and I were hiking in a pouring rain/sleet in spring because we needed to stretch our legs during a period of bad weather. There is lightening, thunder and we are on a ridge thinking we are a bit stupid when we heard the sound of sheep. Here comes a herd of sheep coming down from ridge with a shepherd. He's wearing a wool sweater, a kullu cap walking in flip flops with staff. My friend and I are standing there in our nice gortex thinking, yeah, we are schmucks.

I don't think we have any business telling them how to manage their mountain.

[slwrnu]

here in Tyrol in Spring as the snow recedes many families with young children go out and pick up litter, not paid, just pride.

[vertical_doug]

here in Tyrol in Spring as the snow recedes many families with young children go out and pick up litter, not paid, just pride.

Up until 2018 when China banned some garbage from EU, EU shipped 60% of its recycled plastic waste to China. Now that the ban is in effect, guess what? It goes to India, Indonesia, Thailand, Vietnam....

Out of sight, out of mind. Like I said, Everest is a first world problem.

[lumpy]

I read this thread as just a first world problem.

No one has the right to climb the mountain. You don't even have to earn it. I think the title of Lionel Terray's book sums up my feelings perfectly- Conquistadors of the Useless.

I don't think we have any business telling them how to manage their mountain.

This is my take as well. Telling Nepal how to manage its mountain so rich people can have a more aesthetic tourism experience is pretty classic.

[ides1056]

I spent summers as a kid working for the Sierra Club, picking up trash in the mountains. In the middle of nowhere you'd find, without fail, Pampers and Marlboros. Where I live now, Bud Lite blooms along roadsides when the snow melts.

We don't deserve the planet.

[AngryScientist]

i'm not a mountaineer so i dont fully understand these things, but i find it hard squaring up with the sense of accomplishment from plunking down big bucks, showing up to climb ropes someone else has fixed, crawl over ladders someone else has lugged up there and discarding my used oxygen bottles where i finish them.

[slwrnu]

I do not mind the fixed ropes too much, as long as everyone has the basic skills. You pay the locals for their work and skill. We take all of our rubbish home for recycling - it is not difficult and self evidently there is less weight coming down than up, because you have consumed most of the stuff.

[summilux]

This is going to sound heartless and cruel but maybe I am heartless and cruel...
-If you are rich enough and stupid enough to attempt an Everest summit poorly prepared then you get what you deserve. Darwinian selection is what it is.
-If the dead bodies close to the summit worry you, then your tour company should pay some Sherpas to get them off. Maybe people will need to buy corpse delivery insurance the same way that they buy helicopter evacuation insurance for altitude sickness
-Same thing with the garbage. Hire Sherpas to clean it up. God knows they could use they money and Everest tourists can pay
-Nepal should charge 100X more. Supply and demand works. That way only those with Bugatti Veryons would die.

[gt6267a]

This is going to sound heartless and cruel but maybe I am heartless and cruel...
-If you are rich enough and stupid enough to attempt an Everest summit poorly prepared then you get what you deserve. Darwinian selection is what it is.
-If the dead bodies close to the summit worry you, then your tour company should pay some Sherpas to get them off. Maybe people will need to buy corpse delivery insurance the same way that they buy helicopter evacuation insurance for altitude sickness
-Same thing with the garbage. Hire Sherpas to clean it up. God knows they could use they money and Everest tourists can pay
-Nepal should charge 100X more. Supply and demand works. That way only those with Bugatti Veryons would die.

i suspect there is someone in nepal thinking 11k x 360 climbers = 3.96M is an amazing income for the country. same person is sitting at their desk scared to raise the fee next year to 15k because they might scare people away. if that same person only knew they could raise the fee to 110k and easily get 36 climbers. if that person only knew the 36 climbers would have the time of their lives and be considerably safer. if that person only knew they could surely find 4 people to pay 1.1M to effectively have the mountain and summit to themselves. if that person only knew they could probably find 1 person a year to pay 20m to be the only climber and make this really interesting for themselves and nepal. not certain raising the dollar value is the right constraint, but the idea is illuminating.

whatever the model, once you realize there are more people who want the resource than are able to consume it, i wonder if there isn't away for nepal to take care of itself, the mountain, and the hopeful summiters that has a better result for the country and climbers. by better i mean more prosperity for nepal and less dead people.

[summilux]

I suspect that the climbing fee is pretty inelastic. The Everest tourists are spending $50-100K in total for the experience and even if the climbing fee doubled or tripled you'd still get lots of takers. There was a Canadian woman who died on the summit a few years ago. It turns out that not only was she unprepared (never hiked above the tree line before Nepal), the tour company fleeced her, charging her $60K as a climbing fee. This was the fee for the whole group not just her. Western tourists will pay, so let them pay more. I'm saving my sympathy for the Sherpas and those doing K2.

[mainlyfats]

For as long as I've followed these stories, THIS:

The only Richard Sachs bicycle I ever worked on back in the 90's was owned by a man who found a new route up Everest without Sherpas. Sachs and Everest forever intertwined for me.

[e-RICHIE]

The only Richard Sachs bicycle I ever worked on back in the 90's was owned by a man who found a new route up Everest without Sherpas. Sachs and Everest forever intertwined for me.

Ya back then my frames came with maps (pre-GPS) so exploring was easier. By 2001 I no longer included that option.

[dgaddis]

The Onion killin it once again :: World Populace Actually Fine With Rich People Dying On Mount Everest

[TTX1]

Apparently they are starting to get to work... Mount Everest: 11 tonnes of rubbish cleared - BBC News