--be cognizant of your surroundings-----

[ron l edmiston]

--- again today.., life lost in a house of/for religious respect..
please be aware of all going on around your family, loved ones and you..
so sad.., but i come to grips in the military that safety for life is a 24/7 -- "on guard.."

today's world.., taking it for granted can be heartbreaking..

ronnie

[bigbill]

When I retired from the military after 27 years, I had to go to therapy for PTSD and anxiety for 6 months. I was hyper vigilant about my surroundings, didn't like crowds, wouldn't go to a movie theater, pretty much didn't want to be around people because I didn't know who was in the crowd and if something happened, how they would respond. After a few months I was able to control the anxiety, but I came to the conclusion with my therapist that being vigilant wasn't a bad thing, just getting anxious about it was what I needed to get a handle on. I'm an observer and "see something, say something" guy. I don't want preventable bad things to happen.

[j44ke]

As far as my wife (who is Jewish) is concerned, this was the sound of a shoe dropping. There are already places in the world she doesn't go for business under advisement from her firm's security people. And there are places she would have gone to five or so years ago that she won't go to now. Vigilance is part of her inheritance.

[ides1056]

Likewise. I see something, I do something.

But if you don't feel up to getting involved, don't.

[rwsaunders]

The event that occurred yesterday in Squirrel Hill has had a sobering effect on us all who could not imagine such a horrific act taking place in our hometown. Innocent and devout people, gathering together as always as a community to celebrate their friendship and beliefs with each other. It seems like it's always the innocent, doesn't it?

When I heard the news yesterday about what was taking place, I called my wife who was visiting with her Mother and I heard both of them crying when she answered the phone. Squirrel Hill and the East End of Pittsburgh was our home for a number of years during college and after graduation and knowing that everyday folks, just like the people who were our neighbors and friends for all of those years died as they did, is absolutely heartbreaking. I cannot imagine what their families and friends are going through, but I know in my heart, that they will take action and continue to thrive. Squirrel Hill is that type of neighborhood and community.

I really can't make sense of it at all when people are dying in schools, houses of worship and at family gatherings. It scares the living hell out me, as well as frustrates me to no end. You feel helpless. I was in the Charleston, SC airport this Summer and there was a memorial to the 9 members of the Emanuel A.M.E. church who were murdered in 2105 while attending an evening Bible reading. Similar hateful motive, similar use of a firearm and similar meaningless rhetoric from lawmakers.

I don't know what actions we can take to help something like this from happening again, but I can guarantee that I will offer my support and my vote to fight the battle and I'll be in Squirrel Hill this week to offer my condolences and to pay my respects. Thanks for reading and for allowing me to share my sorrow and sadness.

[guido]

I morn for those touched by this senseless tragedy...
There is only one way to solve this. Vote the enablers of evil out of office and remove the scourge of gun violence from this country.

[jclay]

We have a GOP that, courtesy largely of Karl Rove I believe, figured out that using wedge issues to fracture our electorate and motivate (or incite) those who would support their agenda was the road to political dominance. And he was right. Evil genius right. And now we have a president who has voiced tacit and explicit approval of violence and is remarkably effective at turning what should be reasonable political discourse into a master class in demagoguery, creating an us vs. them tenor in our electorate. And we're swimming in weapons. Do the math and tell me where that goes.

Situational Awareness will not solve our problems. I don't know what will but I'm certain that electing ideologues in the mold of Trump, McConnell, Tom Cotton, et al. will only make things worse.

It's a wholly inadequate comment but my heart goes out to the victims, family and friends of the attack in Philly, and all the other ones that have occurred. It's happening enough that I'm starting to get numb to it.

Our country increasingly resembles a dysfunctional family or relationship where no channel is available to support communicating the basic problem, never mind constructive dialogue as to possible remedies.

[HarryBeast]

I morn for those touched by this senseless tragedy...
There is only one way to solve this. Vote the enablers of evil out of office and remove the scourge of gun violence from this country.

It‘s your country, guys, but looking from abroad, this is obviously it.

[thollandpe]

As far as my wife (who is Jewish) is concerned, this was the sound of a shoe dropping. There are already places in the world she doesn't go for business under advisement from her firm's security people. And there are places she would have gone to five or so years ago that she won't go to now. Vigilance is part of her inheritance.

Shit yeah, Jorn, but Pittsburgh should not and should never be on that list of places. What the fuck? We have to fix this.

We have to fix this.

Todd

[ron l edmiston]

When I retired from the military after 27 years, I had to go to therapy for PTSD and anxiety for 6 months. I was hyper vigilant about my surroundings, didn't like crowds, wouldn't go to a movie theater, pretty much didn't want to be around people because I didn't know who was in the crowd and if something happened, how they would respond. After a few months I was able to control the anxiety, but I came to the conclusion with my therapist that being vigilant wasn't a bad thing, just getting anxious about it was what I needed to get a handle on. I'm an observer and "see something, say something" guy. I don't want preventable bad things to happen.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

-- today.., 50 years later.., when ever a helicopter flys over i become tense/duck and sometimes holler out "all down" and then cover my head with face down..
tammy sheds a tear knowing that deep within i recall that it's medivac coming in for my wounded/dead and the (not my enemy) other soldiers know our position and death now awaits us all..
-- my only deletion of will be "taps.."

ronnie

[davids]

The event that occurred yesterday in Squirrel Hill has had a sobering effect on us all who could not imagine such a horrific act taking place in our hometown. Innocent and devout people, gathering together as always as a community to celebrate their friendship and beliefs with each other. It seems like it's always the innocent, doesn't it?

When I heard the news yesterday about what was taking place, I called my wife who was visiting with her Mother and I heard both of them crying when she answered the phone. Squirrel Hill and the East End of Pittsburgh was our home for a number of years during college and after graduation and knowing that everyday folks, just like the people who were our neighbors and friends for all of those years died as they did, is absolutely heartbreaking. I cannot imagine what their families and friends are going through, but I know in my heart, that they will take action and continue to thrive. Squirrel Hill is that type of neighborhood and community.

I really can't make sense of it at all when people are dying in schools, houses of worship and at family gatherings. It scares the living hell out me, as well as frustrates me to no end. You feel helpless. I was in the Charleston, SC airport this Summer and there was a memorial to the 9 members of the Emanuel A.M.E. church who were murdered in 2105 while attending an evening Bible reading. Similar hateful motive, similar use of a firearm and similar meaningless rhetoric from lawmakers.

I don't know what actions we can take to help something like this from happening again, but I can guarantee that I will offer my support and my vote to fight the battle and I'll be in Squirrel Hill this week to offer my condolences and to pay my respects. Thanks for reading and for allowing me to share my sorrow and sadness.

I am so, so sorry.

This hit really close to home for me, too. Not because I know Squirrel Hill or any of the victims, but because those victims are just like me. I was in my synagogue Friday night. I walked in our open, welcoming front door and sat down with my community to pray. An hour later I wished my friends and clergy a peaceful sabbath, and went home with my wife. The news the next morning, halfway through Shabbat, shattered me.

I am those dead American Jews.

I refuse to accept that the solution to this is more guns. I emphatically do not want a guard at the door to my house of worship. I want that door open. For my house of worship, for yours, for every American's. That is the world I will work to build. I will do my part to repair this broken world.

I am so, so angry.

[j44ke]

Shit yeah, Jorn, but Pittsburgh should not and should never be on that list of places. What the fuck? We have to fix this.

We have to fix this.

Todd

What I am saying is that this isn't new in this country, not even in Pittsburgh.

[jclay]

I morn for those touched by this senseless tragedy...
There is only one way to solve this. Vote the enablers of evil out of office and remove the scourge of gun violence from this country.

I don't see how anyone of good conscience can support Trump, McConnell, Cotton or the vast majority of Republicans in office now, or support the NRA at all. And don't think that this is a raving endorsement of the current conservative incarnation of the Democratic Party, though I don't see it as the metastatic carcinogen that is at the rotten core of the Republican Party. It IS an endorsement of Democrats in the New Deal and Bernie Sanders mold. When it comes to firearms it's as though this country is on crack. I've ceased to ask my Republican acquaintances if there is any level of firearms violence that would cause them to rethink or constrain the 2nd Amendment, in any way. The answer is always no. It's mighty depressing.

[theflashunc]

I used to be one of those "sensible gun regulation" folks who clung to this idea that firearms have a unique place in American society and can co-exist with a civil society.

At this point, ban 'em all. This is what...the sixth or seventh shooting at a place of religious worship in the last 12 months?

And would have been the second of the weekend if a historically African-American church in Kentucky didn't have its doors bolted against a racist whackjob.

[Dallas Tex]

I don't see how anyone of good conscience can support Trump, McConnell, Cotton or the vast majority of Republicans in office now, or support the NRA at all. And don't think that this is a raving endorsement of the current conservative incarnation of the Democratic Party, though I don't see it as the metastatic carcinogen that is at the rotten core of the Republican Party. It IS an endorsement of Democrats in the New Deal and Bernie Sanders mold. When it comes to firearms it's as though this country is on crack. I've ceased to ask my Republican acquaintances if there is any level of firearms violence that would cause them to rethink or constrain the 2nd Amendment, in any way. The answer is always no. It's mighty depressing.

Sometimes I don't recognize this country as the same place that i grew up in. We've become two warring factions that lack the ability to even have honest discussions with each other. Please let me offer a counterpoint to your post. Its not meant as disagreement or a place to start a tit for tat argument. Just something to think about. This past saturday in a Birmingham McDonalds a gunman walked in & opened fire on the customers. A father eating with his children happened to be armed, and was able to stop the shooter before it became our country's latest mass murder. This is just something to think about. No one is going to change anyone's minds here, not today.

The diminished ability of the American people to honestly discuss differences of opinion in respectful ways makes me think nothing will improve anytime soon.

If anyone is interested: Father shoots, kills masked man who opened fire at Birmingham McDonald’s

[davids]

Sometimes I don't recognize this country as the same place that i grew up in. We've become two warring factions that lack the ability to even have honest discussions with each other. Please let me offer a counterpoint to your post. Its not meant as disagreement or a place to start a tit for tat argument. Just something to think about. This past saturday in a Birmingham McDonalds a gunman walked in & opened fire on the customers. A father eating with his children happened to be armed, and was able to stop the shooter before it became our country's latest mass murder. This is just something to think about. No one is going to change anyone's minds here, not today.

The diminished ability of the American people to honestly discuss differences of opinion in respectful ways makes me think nothing will improve anytime soon.

If anyone is interested: Father shoots, kills masked man who opened fire at Birmingham McDonald’s

I don't doubt that there's an occasional Good Guy With a Gun who successfully intervenes. I'd love to know the statistics for successful interventions, and how those compare with the statistics for accidental shootings, arguments that escalate, etc.

Hell, I don't even know how I'd define some of these different events. But I know that my bias is to think that more guns means more shootings. I'd like to know the numbers.

[joosttx]

Yesterday, coming home from riding bikes in Santa Cruz I bit the bullet and pulled into a line of 20 cars deep commonly known as the IN and Out Drive thru line. When I did, I cut off a woman and son trying doing the same thing. I felt bad but I had committed before processing the situation. So what did I do? I bought them dinner and apologized. Little acts of kindness go a long way. We need to show kindness.

[guido]

I think we can count on one or at most two hands the number of instances where a "good guy with a gun" stopped a mass murder situation. Compare that with the total number of incidents of gun violence.

This is the most violent country on earth, and it is the most heavily armed. There is not a coincidence here.

The Australia experience shows that when the population disarms there is a huge reduction in violence and a huge improvement in public health and well being.

[Toddykins]

I grew up around the corner from Tree of Life. It is deeply unsettling and really hits home that this can occur anywhere when it can happen in Squirrel Hill. My thoughts and condolences to everyone else that has been touched by this.

Daltex - The obvious counterpoint to your argument is that countries which have tighter gun control have a lower incidence of gun violence. I just spent nearly 8 years living in Singapore. You dont have shootings at schools or places of worship there. It is obvious that the first step towards ending this type of violence is to have fewer and less powerful guns in people’s hands.

[Matthew Strongin]

But I know that my bias is to think that more guns means more shootings. I'd like to know the numbers.

That's because it does. I've shared links to data from a variety of sources in threads that touch on guns multiple times in the past. The numbers are clear. The US has significantly more guns and significantly more gun violence, while having general crime rates equivalent to similar countries. That means that we are not more criminal than our peer nations, but guns play such a large part in our society that the amount of gun violence is multiple times greater than other developed nations.

Data on successful interventions by non-law enforcement is hard to find, partially due to difficulty in classification and partially due to barriers to collecting some gun data. That said, when looking at how to prevent future mass shootings, the occasional good guy with a gun shouldn't carry the same weight as trying to prevent the bad guys from getting guns in the first place. And that's where the good guy argument is a misdirection. We don't live in the wild west of old Clint Eastwood movies. The data shows that guns in America leads to more dead in America. There is no other public health issue where it's become impossible to get even a fundamental agreement of the source of the problem.

There is some data on "Legal Intervention" where law enforcement used their gun in the line of duty to stop a crime from occurring. While there are plenty of reasons to distrust how shootings land in that classification, even with a big grain of salt they make up about 1%, if that, of shooting deaths. Of the 30-35K or so that occur annually, around 96% are suicides and murders. I think it would be a tough argument to make that more good guys with guns would bring that number down in any meaningful way.