How do we feel about this?

[XR2]

Gunman shot by gun carrying citizen

[bigbill]

Do we need a collective feeling about this? I'm sure there will be multiple opposing views about this event. IMO, the guy carrying was able to take out the shooter without putting anyone else's life in danger. Where I live, there are many people with concealed carry permits and I can't help but think that is a deterrent, but that won't work everywhere such as a large and densely populated area.

[mjbabcock]

Feel like there are a metric shit ton of guns.
Glad someone got to live out their dreams of a shootout at the OK coral.
Still seems like most gun violence is suicide, domestic violence, mass shootings, and drug/gang related.

I wonder how much NRA will promote this story as the answer even though an armed officer with training couldn’t stop a kid with a shotgun and a .38.
Maybe all kids should have mandatory concealed carry at schools? Cause when guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns, but when everyone has a gun, then you don’t have to worry about figuring out who the gunman is.

[mmoore]

Maybe all kids should have mandatory concealed carry at schools? Cause when guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns, but when everyone has a gun, then you don’t have to worry about figuring out who the gunman is.

welcome to the running joke the rest of the developed world makes on these news stories.

[dogrange]

It feels like we are supposed to accept that we should transform daily society in the US into a warzone.

[lumpy]

It feels like we are supposed to accept that we should transform daily society in the US into a warzone.

Or a vigilante society.

[Too Tall]

I feel pretty thankful the gunman was stopped. I feel pissed the NRA responds: "how the best way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun." The organization said it hopes the incident serves as a "wake-up call" for Republican Gov. Mary Fallin, who recently vetoed a so-called constitutional carry bill that would have allowed adults to carry firearms without a license or training in Oklahoma."

No we don't benefit having untrained people with firearms carrying. To narrow just this one miniscule aspect of the observation, hang with me, trained means being able to hit the intended target without excessive risk to others eg. if you miss what's the bullet going to hit...for instance.

Kids, we had > 300 school shootings since 2009. The rest of the world had 3 or less. Something is really really wrong.

For the record I was brought up shooting as a sport, continue to do so and see zero reason to pack heat.

[Matthew J]

In the meantime the good guy with the gun in Santa Fe is lingering in a hospital at risk of losing his arm, and, as far as I know, good guy without a gun, James Shaw, has received barely no recognition from the gun crowd either for his heroism in disarming the Waffle House shooter or for raising money to assist the victims and their families.

[bigbill]

I feel pretty thankful the gunman was stopped. I feel pissed the NRA responds: "how the best way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun." The organization said it hopes the incident serves as a "wake-up call" for Republican Gov. Mary Fallin, who recently vetoed a so-called constitutional carry bill that would have allowed adults to carry firearms without a license or training in Oklahoma."

No we don't benefit having untrained people with firearms carrying. To narrow just this one miniscule aspect of the observation, hang with me, trained means being able to hit the intended target without excessive risk to others eg. if you miss what's the bullet going to hit...for instance.

Kids, we had > 300 school shootings since 2009. The rest of the world had 3 or less. Something is really really wrong.

For the record I was brought up shooting as a sport, continue to do so and see zero reason to pack heat.

I'm totally against concealed carry without training and background checks. Texas has open carry, but you have to have a concealed carry license to do so. Much of concealed carry training is the legal aspects of pulling your weapon and using it and why you'll probably still end up under arrest until it sorts out. I have no desire to carry a weapon.

[Too Tall]

Thanks Bill.

[fiveller]

There is a pack of feral, rabid dogs in my neighborhood. I'm told if I get thicker blue jeans, that will solve the problem. Oh, and thoughts and prayers, too.

https://www.theonion.com/no-way-to-p...s-r-1819576527

Relevant trivia about the OK Corral gunfight:

To reduce crime in Tombstone, on April 19, 1881, the city council passed ordinance 9, requiring anyone carrying a bowie knife, dirk, pistol or rifle[38][39] to deposit their weapons at a livery or saloon soon after entering town. The ordinance was the legal basis for City Marshal Virgil Earp's decision to confront the Cowboys on the day of the shootout.[40]
Gunfight at the O.K. Corral - Wikipedia

So much for the myth that gun regulation is a new thing. Controls were sometimes a lot stricter in the Good Old Days™.

(Disclaimer: We have three guns in our household.)

[davids]

1. Good for them and the victims.
2. Too bad the attacker had a gun in the first place.
3. This single data point is totally meaningless for the national gun control debate.

In the meantime the good guy with the gun in Santa Fe is lingering in a hospital at risk of losing his arm, and, as far as I know, good guy without a gun, James Shaw, has received barely no recognition from the gun crowd either for his heroism in disarming the Waffle House shooter or for raising money to assist the victims and their families.

I think James Shaw has received a decent amount of press, both for his staggering bravery during the rampage and for his impressive modesty and generosity post-attack.

[bking]

Not to ignore the gun side of the argument, but why are we doing this? While US leads the world in guns per person by a wide margin over other industrialized nations, it does not explain why we have 6 to 7 times more mass shootings than any other country (this data is some 3 years old).
After we reduce the flow of guns by any means, without addressing the why this won't stop for a very long time. I've read a few articles that address this. Anyone find others that address the why and do it well?

[bcm119]

It's one data point. Wake me up when there is a large number of such incidents that occur at regular intervals over a period of years.

As for the larger issue, like any other hot button issue it's more complex than hardliners on either side care to admit. I am otherwise very liberal, but have a soft spot for guns (for sport). I'd own several if I lived in a rural area. I see no reason to own one in my city. But the problem is more than just gun availability, it's a cultural/psychological crisis we're in. Reducing guns will help, but only over time. I don't believe we would see the same results Australia had with an outright ban or buyback program.

The problem is that mass shooting is now an option in the back of many sick minds. That's a problem with deep roots and laws won't have an immediate effect. New legislation must be part of any solution but not the only component. I think the heart of the problem is the general American mindset of ruthless competition and lack of compassion. A few mistakes or disadvantages in this society really f*cks you over, and everyone else will gladly step on your head if they sense weakness. Our future isn't bright.

[Jeffrey Lee]

Addressing mental health in this country would be a far more effective tact but no one has the cajones to actually do it, they'd rather take sides on hot button issues.

[davids]

Addressing mental health in this country would be a far more effective tact but no one has the cajones to actually do it, they'd rather take sides on hot button issues.

Can you please elaborate?

What would you consider to be an appropriate way to address mental health issues here? And why do you think no one is brave enough to do that?

[jumphigher]

Dont forget to add in all the responsible people that accidently shoot themselves. This seems like it's been a record year already for kids getting ahold a loaded gun their parents had laying around, and accidently shooting themselves or a friend or sibling.

[ericpmoss]

The people who control what bills come up for debate don't give a shit about mental health or public safety. They are bought and paid for by lobbyists. Pharma lobbyists are why Medicare is not allowed to negotiate drug prices. Wall Street lobbyists are why Dodd Frank is being destroyed (lame as it was) and why financial advisors are no longer required to tell you the truth about your investments. Chemical industry lobbyists are why the EPA is not releasing a report on just how much death and disease are being caused by chemicals released into our air, water, and soil. War lobbyists are why we sell weapons to Saudis who are committing genocide in Yemen, why we blow trillions on stupid F-35s and nuclear weapons upgrades, and why we can't even get the Army to pass the most basic audits.

There is always money for war and billionaire tax cuts; it's only education and medicine and our environment that brings up the "how ya gonna pay for it?" bullshit.

Nothing is going to change until enough people rise up and make it change. That doesn't look likely. We're too busy making excuses for yet another gun and yet another billionaire and yet another war and yet another teacher who needs a part time job to survive. We don't really deserve a better society than the one we're making excuses for.

[Jeffrey Lee]

Can you please elaborate?

What would you consider to be an appropriate way to address mental health issues here? And why do you think no one is brave enough to do that?

Mental health funding has been woefully neglected for years, decades. See anyone doing anything about it? Streets in many communities are filled with homeless mentally ill people with no hope of treatment. See anyone doing anything about it? Politicians are too busy pandering to their big money supporters. Those with real mental issues or with drug dependence problems can get help, as long as insurance will pay for it. In fact some people have been to rehab upwards of 20 times. I posit that "help" has turned into a cottage industry that has self serving interests that do not include real solutions or cures. As long as you are insured. See anyone doing anything about that?

[fiveller]

Addressing mental health in this country would be a far more effective tact but no one has the cajones to actually do it, they'd rather take sides on hot button issues.

There is one party that controls the executive and legislative branches, presently. Same party has held the majority in the legislative branch (where laws and spending originate) for the last 8 years. Who exactly is this "no one" to whom you refer?