The Money You Walked Away From

[rec head]

The retirement thread got me thinking about finances but this is a little different and something I struggle with. I was lucky enough to buy my home when the market was crashing. I didn't get in at the bottom and for a couple years I was underwater on this place but that changed quickly. When we were looking for a single family home there were a lot of 2 and 3 unit apartment buildings in the same price range. We ended up with a foreclosed 3 flat. My wife and I live in one apartment, my brother and his GF in another and in the 3rd apartment we have gone between normal rental and AirBnB. Right now there are friends of friends renting it. Here is my struggle: I have chosen less stress vs more money. My brother gets a ridiculous deal and the friends get a pretty good deal. As part of that deal everybody knows I don't want to hear any bullshit tenant complaints. On the other side of this is the fact that at market rate rent I could be living for free. I can't believe what people are willing to pay for rent these days. There's tons of money to be made in the rental market and I continually think about investing. As soon as that thought crosses my mind it is followed by the thought of having to deal with it. No thanks.

I'm sure there are others here that have taken the "I'm happier with less" approach. What are your stories?

[Matthew Strongin]

I have a long string of career decisions that favor work life balance and enjoyment of my job over flat out earnings behind me (and probably ahead of me as well). It's not that I don't work hard or strive in my career, but that there's a tipping point where more money isn't worth more stress.

[Marin]

I didn't buy Bitcoin for 500€ as I planned to do in 2013. I know a few people who did.

[Greg Costello]

In 1992 I took a 70% paycut and left the private practice of law for the nonprofit realm. It sucked for the first few years as we readjusted our expenses to meet the new income reality. It helped to move from Seattle and sell a house that had rapidly appreciated to Eugene OR where the cost of everything was much less. Fast forward to 2011 when we moved back to Seattle to help take care of my father-in-law: couldn't afford our old neighborhood but the real estate market was still in the dump so we did ok. Had I stayed in private practice something would have broken - my health, my marriage, something as the job was not only consuming in time but soul sucking in spirit. I followed my heart and passion, and the experiences and opportunities I have had in the nonprofit world are ones that never ever would have come to me in the private sector. And I get 8 weeks vacation a year and this year a 3 month sabbatical. I work weekends rarely and only when it is really necessary, not when the managing partner feels the need to wipe up more billable hours. It has its frustrations to be sure, but at the end of the day I can honestly say I am doing something I believe in and that is doing good for the world.

I could retire now and we would be ok, but honestly, I feel like I retired in 1992 when I traded work for calling.

[Octave]

After finishing my PhD I was offered a position working in pharmaceutical development related to the field I had done my thesis in (drug abuse). The company that offered me the job now has two drugs in Phase III clinical trials that, if successful, will be big money makers. The position would have paid double what I currently make, though my day-to-day research would have been at the whim of the company (i.e. if they decided tomorrow that my skillset was better suited for researching a new diabetes drug, I would be obliged to switch my focus). On top of that, it would have kept my in the midwest US where I had lived for most of my life and would involve a work/life balance heavily favored to the latter. It would also have forced me to work at odds with my skepticism of the pharmaceutical industry in turn for a fat paycheck.

Instead, I took an academic research position that brought me (and my partner) to France, allows me a lot of leeway in my research focus, and lets me more-or-less set my own hours. I ride 20hr/week, cook dinner every night with my wife, and wake up to the smell of sea air. I took the money I made on my side-jobs through college and grad school and invested it, which gives me a bit of comfort in the background. I live frugally (aside from bike-stuffs), own a home and don't drive so even on an academic's salary I can continue to set aside small amounts of money.

I have no regrets.

[dgaddis]

When it comes to rental properties, there are companies you can hire to manage it for you. They deal with all the BS for you, you just get a check every month, I've got a friend who is doing that and it seems to work well. Of course, you're still on the hook financially when something breaks or needs repairs.

That said, there can be a LOT of BS, my grandparents owned a bunch of rental properties and made a lot of money off them, but also had a ton of stress. My mom is dealing with that stuff now, she's evicting people every month. My grandparents were too nice and let too many people take advantage of them. They had tennants that didn't pay rent for over a year. They've had to deal with TONS of damaged property - one tennant actually took a chainsaw to the interior walls and totally eff'd a house. Their own grandson (not me!) even took advantage of them and didn't pay rent while also damn near destroying the place.

If I were going to get into rentals:
1 - no family, ever. Too many stories of mixing family and business and it often doesn't end well. Someone will always feel like they're being taken advantage of.
2 - go high end. My grandparents had fairly low end rentals, and I think if they had higher end they'd have less BS to deal with. Less likely to get mentally unstable people that take chainsaws too the walls and whatnot.

In your situation, you've already broken Rule #1, and you'd have to deal with that first, which will likely be awkward at best. And it all depends on what you want to do, how much you want/need that extra income, how much you want to help your brother out, etc.

You could always rent out the 3rd space at market value. You don't owe your friends of friends anything.

[HorsCat]

In the mid 90s I was fresh out of college and hadn't figured out the next step. A friend had a senior position with a certain company. She offered to put me in touch with someone there and said they'd offer me a job without hesitation. I asked what they did. "They trade coal and stuff," was her answer? "Trading coal and stuff?," I thought. "Why the fuck would I want to trade coal and stuff?," I thought. "What's the company's name?," I asked, to be polite. "Glencore" she said. "Never heard of 'em," I replied. And off I went to law school. Yeah, the joke's on me now.

[guido]

I saw a quarter in the street while crossing the other day. But a bunch of cars were coming so I couldn't stop. When they had passed I couldn't find it again.

Darn...

[NYCfixie]

Holding onto QuickMail (only available on the Mac - they may have had a Windows client for about 5 minutes) stock much too long because I thought it was going to be the best office email solution and "the stock" to own.

Holding onto Global Village (they made internal modems for the first few years of the powerbook) stock too long because once they lost the Apple contract and the CEO was forced out due to several sexual harassment claims, the stock was worthless in a a matter of weeks.

Not purchasing Apple stock in 1997 because I thought the company was about to go bankrupt. To this day, I have never owned Apple stock.

Not purchasing Cisco during its infancy when a family friend who was a trader asked me about it because he heard it was an "up and comer" in the networking world. I was too busy buying and using Baystack routers.

And the one that most of you would appreciate, I owned Cannondale stock - ticker symbol: bike and yes, I rode it all the way down to nothing.

Should I go on?

At least I was putting a great deal of money into Vanguard mutual funds because otherwise I would have some financial and emotional regrets.

[davids]

I have a long string of career decisions that favor work life balance and enjoyment of my job over flat out earnings behind me (and probably ahead of me as well). It's not that I don't work hard or strive in my career, but that there's a tipping point where more money isn't worth more stress.

This. And over & over again. No law school, or MBA. Dropped off the "next important job" track after getting burned out on - and shuttled to the side by - office politics.

I'm happy with the balance I struck. Yeah I left money on the table. In exchange I got full nights of sleep, long bike rides and a close loving family. That was an easy choice.

I remember my daughter saying - when I thought she was still too young to have noticed - how we were different from her friends' families (she was attending a name-brand private elementary school): "We eat dinner together every night."

[donevwil]

Seven years ago I took a job 4 miles from home, doing what I love, for a solid company with great atmosphere and very flexible schedule (weekday morning rides) all for just a 40% pay cut.

[vvv321]

I've, luckily, always been able to make decisions that made me happy, or allowed me to pursue a goal, vs needing the money, and that' is a huge privilege. If I could go back I'd do it the same way again, 99.9%.

[Mabouya]

Right now my 401k is worth about 50% more than an amount just a few years ago I thought would be "enough to retire on" (assuming average returns on the principle for the next, oh, 25 years).

Well, I'm still working and have not yet retired. If the market crashes tomorrow I will have in a sense walked away from that money - to keep working.

As I asked a buddy of mine at work today, "How greedy are we?"

[Clyde]

Great thread. A few months ago I left clinical to work in an insurance company with a long list of bennies and a significant increase in salary. We still do plan to move to Greenville hopefully this summer; and I will likely go back to clinical (3x12H shifts). Time cannot be purchased. I really like being in front of people rather than a computer screen. However the HSA and 401K contributions are impressive, but the lifestyle does not really suit me. Glad it's winter and on and on....I am way to ADD for sitting in an office all day.

[dbh]

When it comes to rental properties, there are companies you can hire to manage it for you. They deal with all the BS for you, you just get a check every month, I've got a friend who is doing that and it seems to work well. Of course, you're still on the hook financially when something breaks or needs repairs.

That fee can take a pretty hefty bite out of your rental income. If you're an absentee landlord, there's almost no other option, but if you're living in the building and can keep an eye on the property and tenants, it may not be worth hiring out a management company. Back when I rented, I lived in what was becoming a fairly expensive neighborhood in DC. The rent was manageable, which is why I stayed. The landlord gave me a break on rent because we were good tenants who did a lot of preventative maintenance ourselves and didn't bug him when the slightest thing needed fixing. That said, if I was paying full market rent in an expensive city, I'd want every last lightbulb replaced for me whenever they burnt out, etc. With high rent, you also have to factor in turnover. I stayed in my place for 7 years knowing what a good deal it was before I finally bought something. Letting an apartment sit vacant, finding tenants etc, can be a huge time suck.

[sk_tle]

When my first daughter was born I had a fairly long commute. I decided to work part time so that I can see my girls more often. This was priceless. One year ago I accepted a job closer to home. Salary is much much lower, I now work full time but I'm only 5 minutes away from home, the girl's school and daycare and only 20 minutes from the nearest ski resort.

[gggross]

For me, this ties into the retirement thread as well. I left a high pay, high stress job 18 months ago. Worked for the company I left for over 30 years. Had significant long term comp in many forms that I walked away from to buy into a business in which I’m the managing partner. Traded one type of stress for another at much lower compensation.

I remember my partner asking if I was sure I wanted to walk away from my former employer considering the comp package and I didn’t blink when I said yes.

At least I have more flexibility in my work day, less travel and no one yelling at me for better results. It’s been a good trade off for me at this point in my life.

George

[Matthew Strongin]

For me, this ties into the retirement thread as well. I left a high pay, high stress job 18 months ago. Worked for the company I left for over 30 years. Had significant long term comp in many forms that I walked away from to buy into a business in which I’m the managing partner. Traded one type of stress for another at much lower compensation.

I remember my partner asking if I was sure I wanted to walk away from my former employer considering the comp package and I didn’t blink when I said yes.

At least I have more flexibility in my work day, less travel and no one yelling at me for better results. It’s been a good trade off for me at this point in my life.

George

I hope to get there one day. I'm 12 years in at my current company. Great benefits, good flexibility, and I could see myself staying for a while. But one day I'd love to go do something exciting at a smaller company.

[Rich Beaudoin]

About 20 years ago my wife was offered a project engineering position with Westinghouse with a salary beyond what we had ever known. The catch was that the power plant was being built in Thailand. At the time, I was a rep for Trek bikes and she earned a higher salary. I even had a possible job in Thailand through a friend at Backroads!
The deal breaker was that we were talking about having kids and my wife said there was no way she would have kids so far from grandparents.
No regrets, and we’ve spent plenty of time in Thailand even biking through much of it.

[rec head]

I hope to get there one day. I'm 12 years in at my current company. Great benefits, good flexibility, and I could see myself staying for a while. But one day I'd love to go do something exciting at a smaller company.

You definitely need a job where you can ride more than 700 miles a week. It's almost like why bother?