How to justify buying the best.

[xjoex]

I thought this was apropos to the general VSalon viewer (myself included.)


Also this guy's books are great if you need some humorous sci fi.

-Joe

[bigbill]

Only this place would understand the internal struggle I went through when I decided against Di2 on my new bike. Mechanical is good enough but it's not the best. Acceptance is hard.

[Mabouya]

Value = Benefit / Cost

Choose what you like.

[Corso]

Ruler:
I went to Design School. Long before computers, all work by hand, more of a craft vs today.
Had an old school professor from Germany-highly regarded in the world of Graphic Design. Think Bauhaus.
He did not care for any ruler other than Stainless. If you couldn't afford to buy one, he’d bring one in for you.
BUT...
…he stated: "If you drop your steel ruler in the course of a project, you must start over, as when the ruler hits the ground, the molecules in the metal are fractured for a micro-milli-second and reformed, thus the ruler will not be registered to where it was - so your measures will be off from before the drop.”

We all looked at each other and snickered.

He was not joking.

I love and still respect that man.

[dogrange]

Only this place would understand the internal struggle I went through when I decided against Di2 on my new bike. Mechanical is good enough but it's not the best. Acceptance is hard.

I'll validate you - Mechanical is superior to Di2, so you did buy the best.

[bigbill]

I'll validate you - Mechanical is superior to Di2, so you did buy the best.

A weight has been lifted.

[davids]

The NYT's Sketch Guy is my guru:

Three Ways to Think About ‘Is It Worth It?’ - The New York Times
The First (and Last) Step to Financial Satisfaction? Defining ‘Enough’ - The New York Times
Sometimes, Spending Brings a Bigger Return Than Saving - The New York Times
Learning to Stop Before ‘Just Enough’ Becomes ‘Way Too Much’ - The New York Times
Spend the Money for the Good Boots, and Wear Them Forever - The New York Times

And, of course, this: https://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/22/y...-you-love.html

[bigbill]

Whether something is worth it or not is subjective to me. I pay a guy to take care of my lawn, it's somewhat large with lots of landscaping that came with the house. If I had designed the house, the yard would be astroturf. But, my engineering job works out around $45/hour. It would take me two hours a week to take care of my lawn, two hours that I don't get to ride, go to The Boy's cross country/swim/track meets, or watch Ancient Aliens. So I pay a guy $40 for each time he mows which is once a week May through October. It's worth it to me, and I have a much nicer lawn than any cyclist deserves.

[dgaddis]

I'm a big fan of buying high quality but also high value stuff. If Product A is the best, and cost $100, and Product B is 80% as good as Product A but cost $50, I'm buying Product B. Usually. Sometimes you just want Product A, cost be damned.

[joosttx]

Value = Benefit / Cost

Choose what you like.

Value is good when you buy stocks not so much when you buy bikes.

[monadnocky]

I'm a big fan of buying high quality but also high value stuff. If Product A is the best, and cost $100, and Product B is 80% as good as Product A but cost $50, I'm buying Product B. Usually. Sometimes you just want Product A, cost be damned.

I call this "The Ultegra Factor" (but, of course, Ultegra is a LOT more than 80% as good as DA in my book.)

[bigbill]

I call this "The Ultegra Factor" (but, of course, Ultegra is a LOT more than 80% as good as DA in my book.)

This is true, but my Ultegra gravel bike has a 9100 FD just for bling.

[thollandpe]

Only this place would understand the internal struggle I went through when I decided against Di2 on my new bike. Mechanical is good enough but it's not the best. Acceptance is hard.

Yes, and just because something better or prettier or faster exists, does not diminish the quality or beauty or speed of the thing you have. Or are.

For example, the existence of Whistle Pig does not make my glass of Bulliet any less tasty.

[Bob Ross]

I'm a big fan of buying high quality but also high value stuff. If Product A is the best, and cost $100, and Product B is 80% as good as Product A but cost $50, I'm buying Product B. Usually.

How do you quantify that "N%-as-good" metric?

[72gmc]

For example, the existence of Whistle Pig does not make my glass of Bulliet any less tasty.

Always on topic--we finally dropped the big money on sphere ice molds for weekend sipping. First sip, justified.

[dgaddis]

How do you quantify that "N%-as-good" metric?

That's a good question. Just depends on the product, and what your expectations are, and how much you care.

When it comes to bikes stuff, Ultegra wins over DA. For the road bike I built up this summer I even picked 105 over Ultegra. Boyd & Nox win over ENVE & Zipp, IMO.

When it comes to clothes, shoes, watches, I don't put enough personal value on those things to care. Shirts, shoes, pants - all wear items I'll likely tear or stain before they 'wear out', so I tend to buy pretty cheap stuff. I try not to spend over $45 for a pair of jeans for example. A $150 pair of pants isn't going to improve my day or make me happier than a pair of Old Navy jeans bought on sale, and when I get grease on them, or tear them somehow, I won't be as upset with a cheaper pair.

What really bothers me is things that are expensive for no real reason, or at least not for a functional reason. Handbags, watches, things like that. There's so many purses that cost hundreds of dollars for no apparent reason whatsoever - they're mass produced overseas, there's nothing special about them, they're not even really exclusive. Expensive watches, even if not mass produced overseas, are just about the bling factor, they're not functionally better than a cheaper watch.

All that, to each their own. You do you, baby.

I've got a custom steel gravel bike with Di2 and carbon wheels...I certainly don't need it, and it's not a great value. But the heart wants what the heart wants.

[Matthew Strongin]

That's a good question. Just depends on the product, and what your expectations are, and how much you care.

When it comes to bikes stuff, Ultegra wins over DA. For the road bike I built up this summer I even picked 105 over Ultegra. Boyd & Nox win over ENVE & Zipp, IMO.

When it comes to clothes, shoes, watches, I don't put enough personal value on those things to care. Shirts, shoes, pants - all wear items I'll likely tear or stain before they 'wear out', so I tend to buy pretty cheap stuff. I try not to spend over $45 for a pair of jeans for example. A $150 pair of pants isn't going to improve my day or make me happier than a pair of Old Navy jeans bought on sale, and when I get grease on them, or tear them somehow, I won't be as upset with a cheaper pair.

What really bothers me is things that are expensive for no real reason, or at least not for a functional reason. Handbags, watches, things like that. There's so many purses that cost hundreds of dollars for no apparent reason whatsoever - they're mass produced overseas, there's nothing special about them, they're not even really exclusive. Expensive watches, even if not mass produced overseas, are just about the bling factor, they're not functionally better than a cheaper watch.

All that, to each their own. You do you, baby.

I've got a custom steel gravel bike with Di2 and carbon wheels...I certainly don't need it, and it's not a great value. But the heart wants what the heart wants.

I'd say it really depends on how the buyer defines cost vs. value vs. function and what their priorities and interests are. Try explaining to someone who doesn't ride bikes why a premium or custom bike and a Walmart clunker aren't the same and have a justifiable cost differential. Things like expensive handbags and watches may seem like they're just about the bling factor, and sure that's a component just as it is with a nice bike, but the good ones also offer a quality of material and construction that aren't just "for the sake of". When done well they offer durability, repairability, and other functional benefits (depending on the product) that will far surpass the cheap alternative. Using my wife and handbags as an example, after years of using cheap ones and replacing them once or twice a year she was gifted (not by me) a very nice bag. That was about 4 years ago. It still looks brand new and the company will repair any issues free of charge for the lifetime of the product. At the rate it's wearing I figure she'll get another 20 years out of it. Much better, IMO, than churning through 30 cheap purses over the same period of time. The same goes for watches. A cheap watch is disposable. A quality watch could be an heirloom.

[dgaddis]

I'd say it really depends on how the buyer defines cost vs. value vs. function and what their priorities and interests are.

Agree 100%.

I also think there's a weird middle ground on some things... purses for example. I bought my wife a Donnie and Burke (SP?) for Christmas a few years ago, it was around $200 or so (on sale if my memory is good) she used it for a while and then put it in the closet until next summer. The following summer she pulled it out and it had discolored itself in places! Looked like water damage. She had a several hundred dollar Coach bag that the strap fell apart on, they have a warranty/repair deal of some sort, but instead of just repairing or replacing the strap they gave her a certificate for the value of the bag to get a new one. They no longer had any of those straps. It was less than a year old - they never had any intentions to repair those bags.

And again, it's all relative. I'm sure $200/$300 purses, while stupid expensive in my mind, in the world of handbags they are equivalent to the $500 Allez in the world of bikes.

[sk_tle]

There is no quality difference between say 105 and DA di2. It is about features and/or weight. Any of them will last a long time and operate quietly and reliably.

Now if you are talking Shimano Tourney and other non series components they sell in third world country there is definitely a huge difference. The thing is vsalon is full of wealthy old mens who think that shimano 105 is entry level while it is in fact the first group in their high end line. Casual cyclists in the rest of the world are perfectly content with shimano Claris, Acera and Alivio.

[caleb]

when the ruler hits the ground, the molecules in the metal are fractured for a micro-milli-second and reformed, thus the ruler will not be registered to where it was - so your measures will be off from before the drop.”

I rode a steel bike to work today and hit a patch of rough pavement on a 40mph downhill. I'm amazed I'm alive, and the bike might even still be straight.

Will I really make it home? I will now have doubts, brake early.