assult automatic weapons....

[mjbabcock]

serious question here...what is to keep 3-5 million people from joining the NRA and then voting out the shitty ass leadership, to then put in some pragmatic fan of hunting/target practice who can stop the insanity we have right now. i'm pretty sure a fundraising effort would be something like Live-Aid, and could easily double the membership...only to take over the organization.

[Matthew Strongin]

All the laws in the world won't stop people killing/stealing/raping, but that's no reason to not at least try to save some lives. The Australian government could've said "oh hey, there's so many guns out there, what's the point", but instead they introduced legislation, bought back over a million guns, and made a start at stopping gun deaths. The US government doesn't even want to do that, instead offering thoughts and prayers, and admonitions to not politicise the issue.

This. Progress doesn't require absolute resolution of the problem. An obscene amount of guns are in the public's hands. Most legal, many illegal and it's incredibly unlikely that stricter laws alone will fully prevent gun deaths. But if tighter restrictions, buy-back programs and limitations on the types of weapons available could prevent some gun deaths, it's worth it. I'd personally love to see a society without guns, and I say that as someone who grew up shooting and still enjoys time at the range. Data tells me that I'm safer without a gun around, so despite my interest in the mechanical and sport aspects of firearms, I don't keep any and wish nobody else did either. And while I don't expect others to share that view, I do hope that people can recognize the discrepancy between the gun problems and policies in the US vs the rest of the world and are willing to accept changes that are in the public interest. We accept those restrictions on other aspects of our lives because most people generally want to live in a safer place than they do today. But if the defenders of a literal second amendment interpretation can't get behind a collective drive to make attempts for a safer society, I'd at least like to see them stand up for the rest of the bill of rights with the same fervor.

[HarryBeast]

serious question here...what is to keep 3-5 million people from joining the NRA and then voting out the shitty ass leadership, to then put in some pragmatic fan of hunting/target practice who can stop the insanity we have right now. i'm pretty sure a fundraising effort would be something like Live-Aid, and could easily double the membership...only to take over the organization.

Brilliant!!

[colker]

I can understand the satisfaction of owning a gun but i don´t buy the idea you have more freedom because you own guns. Free from what? Governement agencies have way more firepower and will subdue any confrontation.
No gun will make you safer from violent crime . Criminals will just come harder on you. Cops will come harder on everyoe.
Guns make a more violent environment.. less safe for children. Citizens without guns are as free and respected as those armed.
Attachment to guns unless you depend on hunting for a living seems mostly for selfish, narcissistic reasons... and paranoia.

[fiveller]

A little historical perspective:

Gun laws were tougher in old Tombstone - latimes And one fact is usually ignored: Back then, Tombstone had far stricter gun control than it does today. In fact, the American West's most infamous gun battle erupted when the marshal tried to enforce a local ordinance that barred carrying firearms in public. A judge had fined one of the victims $25 earlier that day for packing a pistol.

"You could wear your gun into town, but you had to check it at the sheriff's office or the Grand Hotel, and you couldn't pick it up again until you were leaving town," said Bob Boze Bell, executive editor of True West Magazine, which celebrates the Old West. "It was an effort to control the violence."

Gun laws were tougher in old Tombstone - latimes

The sad thing is this article was in response to... another mass shooting.

[Corso]

How did Prohibition work out for us?

Tried to solve one problem, created many more.

Australia is not the United States, The United States is not Australia-or any other country. My opinion-these comparisons with other countries are apples and oranges.

I was in Tombstone recently. Compared to Boston, I may have well been on Mars. My point: America is very diverse-what makes sense in one region may not in another.

Again, I’m FOR tighter gun control- but not an all out ban.
I’m not a member of the NRA - due to the propaganda nature of the org, and where they stand on certain subjects.

News Flash: The NRA does not speak for every legal gun owner.

[guido]

News Flash: The NRA does not speak for every legal gun owner.

Unfortunately there are few to zip non-NRA voices that can be heard in the national conversation right now...

[bking]

I have a longer post/comment, but if i don't get back around to it, I'll throw this out there for thought:

If we truly want to go after gun violence, let's ban all guns except assault rifles. If we stopped all mass murder, we reduce gun deaths from 11,500 to 11,300--not nearly good enough. But, we must go after free speech: music, film and video games. And offer Hollywood to Australia, because while most of them are all about banning assault weapons etc, they make a fortune off of them under the guise of "free speech". We have got to stop glorifying violence murder and mayhem. Then we may begin to see a real decline in gun violence.

And the mocking of "thoughts and prayers" that apparently started in Hollywood, should stop. It makes a real difference to many to know that others do care, even if they can do nothing. I know this to be true.
Thanks.
Bruce

[mjbabcock]

i looked, the NRA has a 75 person board. 25 members are elected each year. We could effectively castrate the pieces of shit that fear monger and put in a board that enjoys shooting targets and hunting but acknowledge that citizens don't need military grade firearms any more than they need tanks or grenades. So, $40 membership*5 million people*3 years=$600 million dollars to buy our way out of this problem.

Shit, I'll bet there are folks in Vegas who are racking up $1million dollar medical bills. Between lost Vegas revenue and medical expenses, I'd bet that this one shooting cost us $600 million.

[davids]

News Flash: The NRA does not speak for every legal gun owner.

Exactly. And yet so many members of Congress speak for the NRA.

The idea of taking it over and voting in a slate of moderate leaders is a great one. Someone with skills should organize this.

[thollandpe]

Another angle to look at.

Like our country's opioid crisis, surely the manufacturers bear some responsibility here. For not only the absurd lobbying of the NRA, but also the absurd oversupply. If they can keep anything and everything legal, they can turn their backs on any responsibility for arming these nutjobs.

[thollandpe]

And the mocking of "thoughts and prayers" that apparently started in Hollywood, should stop. It makes a real difference to many to know that others do care, even if they can do nothing. I know this to be true.
Thanks.

Bruce, I don't think the mocking of that sentiment is at all targeted at those who offer it in earnest. It points out the hypocrisy of those in congress that have had the opportunity to take meaningful action and instead shut any and every effort down. Many of them have taken gobs of money from the NRA, such as The Congress Members Receiving the Most N.R.A. Funding - The New York Times

[ron l edmiston]

-- nra.., executive and congress:
not about my/your rights or relative to wrong or right.., it's about --- $$MONEY$$..

ronnie

[guido]

Guns are much more likely to kill folks than cars but the manufacturers working with/through the NRA have make sure all accountability is on the user not the sales chain. To own a car you need to be trained, tested registered and insured. If there is a defect is found with a car the manufacturer is accountable for damages and prevention/recall etc.

Guns? none of the above.

If we can't eliminate guns, putting the same licensing/insurance requirement as cars would be a good way to start to work on the issue. If the Insurance Company responsible for the damage inflicted by the Los Vegas shooter was on the hook for the damages inflicted there would be some changes made...

[ron l edmiston]

--- the NRA is smarter, direct goal/control oriented, can outflank / out maneuver and reverse subjective to objective ---- our in place current elected officials are not cable of..
their sole goal is market/sell weapons and ammunition to their paid for view audience..

ronnie

[Cookietruck]

Another angle to look at.

Like our country's opioid crisis, surely the manufacturers bear some responsibility here. For not only the absurd lobbying of the NRA, but also the absurd oversupply. If they can keep anything and everything legal, they can turn their backs on any responsibility for arming these nutjobs.

This is something I was thinking as well, the gun production numbers can quickly be found and it shows a very steep increase in production in the last 8-10 yrs or so (thanks Obama!!!). It's all about money, hype the guns and talk about how the gov't wants to erode your freedoms and take your guns away so certain people will rush out and buy them for their stockpiles/Liberty Bunker.
Funny what happened to the gun manuf. stock pirices after we got a Republican back in the Whitehouse.

Since I'm writing a post here I will go ahead and say I'm not against all guns, I don't own any but I know how to use them and can shoot pretty ok. The military style guns are built for a specific purpose and it isn't hunting. You want to use that style of gun, join the armed forces and go do some combat.

[Matthew J]

If we truly want to go after gun violence, let's ban all guns except assault rifles. If we stopped all mass murder, we reduce gun deaths from 11,500 to 11,300--not nearly good enough. But, we must go after free speech: music, film and video games. And offer Hollywood to Australia, because while most of them are all about banning assault weapons etc, they make a fortune off of them under the guise of "free speech". We have got to stop glorifying violence murder and mayhem. Then we may begin to see a real decline in gun violence.

Nordic television and film industry have become big industries despite the language barrier and small pool of acting talent to chose from. Their primary product is rather violent Nordic Noir. And yet, the level of violent crime in the Nordic countries is well among the lowest in the world. In the US, California - home to Hollywood - and NYC, US number 2 entertainment production center - have well below average violent crime per capita compared to the rest of the US. Guns are killing people. Not television shows.

And the mocking of "thoughts and prayers" that apparently started in Hollywood, should stop. It makes a real difference to many to know that others do care, even if they can do nothing. I know this to be true.
Thanks.
Bruce

The hell it did. Thoughts and Prayers is a meme our elected representatives cynically throw out in response to gun violence. Not unlike the similarly asinine "I'm not a scientist' quip in response to questions about climate change. It is patently obvious this is a talking point that RNC employees brief the politicians on.

If you really believe the politicians saying it care, may I interest you in a large bridge between Manhattan and Brooklyn I'ld like to sell?

[Dallas Tex]

Most folks who’ve had their life ended via a gun aren’t victims of some statistically rare mass shooting, they are the victims of common street crime. How many of you would support a law that carries a mandatory life/no-parole sentence for anyone illegally carrying a gun during the commission of even minor illegal activities? Steal a car with a gun in your pocket? You are now permanently removed from society. It would definitely save more lives than anything that’s been mentioned in this thread as of now.

[bking]

Nordic television and film industry have become big industries despite the language barrier and small pool of acting talent to chose from. Their primary product is rather violent Nordic Noir. And yet, the level of violent crime in the Nordic countries is well among the lowest in the world. In the US, California - home to Hollywood - and NYC, US number 2 entertainment production center - have well below average violent crime per capita compared to the rest of the US. Guns are killing people. Not television shows.



The hell it did. Thoughts and Prayers is a meme our elected representatives cynically throw out in response to gun violence. Not unlike the similarly asinine "I'm not a scientist' quip in response to questions about climate change. It is patently obvious this is a talking point that RNC employees brief the politicians on.

If you really believe the politicians saying it care, may I interest you in a large bridge between Manhattan and Brooklyn I'ld like to sell?

People are killing people Matthew J, not guns (I am sorry for that overwrought phrase). No one that I've heard blames the truck that killed people in France. It was the driver, Mohamed Lahouaiej-Bouhlel, that killed 84 people that day. I won't bother to expand on my comments, because it appears you and others who bought that bridge you"re trying to sell me are convinced the solution is getting rid of assault type weapons. It's not a bad thing to save two hundred people at all; it is a crime to think the problem is solved and overlook the 11,000 others. We're hacking away at the branches here, no one is working on the root cause: what in our culture is causing this?
Good luck with that bridge though.

[davids]

Most folks who’ve had their life ended via a gun aren’t victims of some statistically rare mass shooting, they are the victims of common street crime. How many of you would support a law that carries a mandatory life/no-parole sentence for anyone illegally carrying a gun during the commission of even minor illegal activities? Steal a car with a gun in your pocket? You are now permanently removed from society. It would definitely save more lives than anything that’s been mentioned in this thread as of now.

I think mandatory sentencing guidelines have been a proven loser.

But you have your facts wrong. Most folks who've had their lives ended by gunshot have committed suicide. Research shows that restricting the availability of guns would reduce the number of suicides.

As far as homicides (based on the FBI's 2015 stats), there were 13,455 murders and at least 9,616 (71%) involved guns. Only 2,014 of those 13,455 homicides involved another crime (rape, robbery, etc.) - the largest single subcategory is "Other arguments" with 2,941 murders.

Check out the numbers yourselves here. It's a kaleidoscope of people at our worst.