America's Cup - bicycle observation

[holliscx]

Was watching a sailing race yesterday of a Kiwi vs British boat. These are the fast America's Cup sailing boats that basically sit out of the water, but I noticed 2 bicycles in the New Zealand boat - you could literally see saddles - so I gathered the Kiwis were pedaling to raise / lower the sails (?) whereas the other teams use the traditional furious arm crank method.

Anyone know any more about this? I'm still getting my head around boats gliding above water but when I noticed 2 crew members pedaling stationery bicycles on board during the race I thought this is absolutely nuts.

The following race pitted a Japanese versus Swedish boat but neither used bicycles on board.

One minor gripe: I found the 7 leg courses to be really sloppy like how the boats navigate around what appears to be a relatively small parcel of water. Isn't there a better way to lay out courses? As a casual fan watching yesterday I have to say the illogical course was a turn off. Why don't they just race out and back in a straight line? Is the turning and navigating the whole point? i.e. judging wind speed, direction, etc? I just didn't think the race was beautiful to watch when the boats and crews were.

[sk_tle]

I swear we discussed about it during the winter but can't find the thread.

[sine]

I watched the first weekend. Team New Zealand has 4 "bike" stations powering hydraulics.

[chrisn]

Never seen that before. Good job they were wearing crash helmets as they nosedived into a wave at high speed earlier in the week:

[lumpy]

It's generating power for the hydraulics to trim the sails (move them in and out relative to the centerline) and control their shape, and also, pretty uniquely to these foiling boats, to raise and lower and trim the foils that the boat rides on.

The multi-leg course is because the race is not just a test of straightline speed. There are countless tactical decisions having to do with the direction of the wind and how it shifts, to "cover" or block the wind to your opponent, and the ability to use the complicated racing rules to your advantage so that you have the right of way in situations where you are close to your opponent.

[randonneur]

I swear we discussed about it during the winter but can't find the thread.

Indeed we did.
https://www.velocipedesalon.com/foru...ing-46886.html

[happycampyer]

Lionel's next thread: "Thinking of an America's Cup yacht"

[robin3mj]

Lionel's next thread: "Thinking of an America's Cup yacht"

Fucking gold.

[holliscx]

Mods if anyone's reading and it's appropriate to merge w "Never saw this coming" thread please do.

Sailing needs to go back to old school standards. While the ingenuity is cool, that should be reserved for certain kinds of races (outliers) while the traditional big races should fall back on specific shapes and standards, and no nonsense like this. Unfortunately America and Larry Ellison were a big part of the innovation problem but I just feel they're getting away from the basics as detriment to the sport.

In other news 3-on-3 basketball was just approved for the Tokyo Olympics. Ultimate and cyclocross there is hope.

[Mabouya]

Sailing a purely out and back course would be akin to having each stage of the TDF be an ITT with 5 minutes between starts.

[holliscx]

Sailing a purely out and back course would be akin to having each stage of the TDF be an ITT with 5 minutes between starts.

What's the TdF equivalent of foiling then an all downhill stage?

[lumpy]

Mods if anyone's reading and it's appropriate to merge w "Never saw this coming" thread please do.

Sailing needs to go back to old school standards. While the ingenuity is cool, that should be reserved for certain kinds of races (outliers) while the traditional big races should fall back on specific shapes and standards, and no nonsense like this. Unfortunately America and Larry Ellison were a big part of the innovation problem but I just feel they're getting away from the basics as detriment to the sport.

In other news 3-on-3 basketball was just approved for the Tokyo Olympics. Ultimate and cyclocross there is hope.

I have to disagree. I think foiling takes nothing away from the sport, but adds a tremendous dimension of speed and science. For someone who grew up racing olympic class dinghys, seeing these boats up and out of the water, fifty feet long and they only weigh three tons, going forty or fifty knots, tacking upwind while up on the foils, that's just unbelievable.

America's cup have always been development classes. This is just the next level. And what a next level.

[Noteddy]

I have to disagree. I think foiling takes nothing away from the sport, but adds a tremendous dimension of speed and science. For someone who grew up racing olympic class dinghys, seeing these boats up and out of the water, fifty feet long and they only weigh three tons, going forty or fifty knots, tacking upwind while up on the foils, that's just unbelievable.

America's cup have always been development classes. This is just the next level. And what a next level.

I completely agree. These things are awesome feats of engineering and ingenuity that still require skill and athleticism to win.

We need an equivalent cycling competition. Blow out all the rules every four years.

[sine]

I also agree with lumpy.

[hidayanra]

of note - the NZ squad is also using WC dudes to pedal said bicycles.
From the department of "not messing about"

[Jeffrey Borisch]

Sailing needs to go back to old school standards. While the ingenuity is cool, that should be reserved for certain kinds of races (outliers) while the traditional big races should fall back on specific shapes and standards, and no nonsense like this. Unfortunately America and Larry Ellison were a big part of the innovation problem but I just feel they're getting away from the basics as detriment to the sport.

There are plenty of old school classes but they are often not on TV. Lasers were in the 2016 olympics. Kinda like the whole peloton riding on Tarmacs.

[SteveP]

in 1977 ( could have been 80 ) i went to newport ri to visit the boats weeks before the races...
that was when boats were actual boats and not high tech devices.

australia was simple and tied up to the dock... i walked up and asked the aussie crew if i could come aboard.. sure, come on.
the hull was aluminum and inside it was stripped of anything extra. the guys were super friendly and talkative...
inside was a magic marker drawing on the hull of a frog drowning ( france).. whom they had beaten.

the american boat was surrounded by security people and you couldnt get onto the dock it was tied up to...
im pretty sure it was courageous but its been awhile.

im chatting w a guy on the dock and he tells me the story of marcel bic...( pens) who owned and sailed france.
this is the guy who calibrates the compasses that they used on those boats... ancient history.
compasses need to be set exactly in the area that they will be used. he told me the story of bic...
" bic couldnt hold his boat on the heading i needed to calibrate the compass... after 3 tries he said..." good enough.."

look it up.. one of his races finished in fog... he never crossed the finish line cause he couldnt find it.

too funny for words...

the american boat won but the next cup i thk they lost or maybe it was 2 later...
they were beaten by "the keel" on the aussie boat as i recall.

there are a few of those old boats around still down there...
they are really beautiful to look at.
the form is so classical.

[alexstar]

Lionel's next thread: "Thinking of an America's Cup yacht"

J-class or bust, man.

[lumpy]

in 1977 ( could have been 80 ) i went to newport ri to visit the boats weeks before the races...
that was when boats were actual boats and not high tech devices.

I was down there that year too - I can't remember if it was 77 or 80 either but I think it was 80 because I would have been 12, slowly fixing up a basket case Flying Junior with my Dad and obsessed by boats. Walked out on the Challenger's docks and mooned over Sverige (fun fact - that boat had winch pedestals cranked by pedals too, supposedly the first).

So far the pedalers are killing it.

I got (even more) interested in this and did some reading. Apparently a lot of the competitive advantage in these boats is the hydraulics. They have "accumulators" that allow full hydraulic pressure to be maintained. So pedaling at high wattage allows those accumulators to be fully charged more quickly.

Having the accumulators is arguably a break from tradition because if you think about a traditional sailboat with winches, the grinders generate the power they need when it is called for. There's no reservoir or battery, they grind and the winch pulls the line in, and the control surface is only moved as fast as power is generated to move it. With an accumulator, they keep cranking through slack periods to top up the accumulator so that full power is available instantly. I'm kind of curious about the rules and what they say about accumulator capacity, but not curious enough to look it up. Anyway, their race, their rules.