Surprise! $1600 towing bill and storage fee

[dually]

I was the owner of a '97 Pathfinder for a few years from 2009 to 2012, fully insured and licensed during that time. The Pathfinder was sold in February of 2012 and the title was signed over to the owner. Cash in hand, I went and purchased a new pickup.

Fast forward to April 26th, 2016 when I received a letter from a local towing company with $13 worth of postage. The letter inside, to sum it up, stated "the 97 Pathfinder (towed on March 29th) you own has a balance of $1600, you have 30 days to clear it up, abandoning a vehicle is a Class A misdemeanor". That was a bit of a shock. Shit, I had relinquished possession of that vehicle over 4 years ago! I immediately called the towing company and explained the circumstance and that they had the wrong guy. They replied with, "get a copy of the title and bring it to us to sign the vehicle over to our business." To me, that sounded incredibly shady. What would prevent the 'actual' owner from coming after me for giving away his SUV?

Anyway, I called my insurance company to find documentation that would list when insurance was taken off, just to have that in my back pocket in case. The next call was made to the ND DMV to make sure I was the current owner in their database. The DMV, surprisingly, was happy to help; also supplying some surprising information. The Pathfinder title was surrendered to a neighboring state. That should be the end of it; clear cut, I am no longer the owner.

However, this is not the case. The towing company continues that stance that I am the owner according to the documents they claim were supplied to them by the DMV. When I asked to see them, they just happened not to be able to locate the file..

(EDIT)I just received documentation from the ND DMV that states the title was surrendered. I will bring that over soon to clear up the situation.

I do have some questions:

I suppose state to state, towing companies have some sort of statutes to follow? What prevents them from towing some random vehicle and then charging a whorehouse rate only to notify the affected party a month later?

Does anyone have experience with a national VIN search? The towing company claims the performed a search and I came back as the owner. Is there anyway to prove this is not the case?

I did *uck up by not completing a bill of sale. Just a verbal agreement that the vehicle was to be sold as-is. I feel this is really coming back to bite now. Just a word of advice, ALWAYS complete a BoS, and possibly a copy of the signed title. This whole situation is being played out as 'guilty until proven innocent'. The towing service, it seems, is just looking for a quick buck and I'm the easy target.

Anyone else have to deal with towing crooks?

[Too Tall]

[Saab2000]

About 20 years ago or so my brother had a bizarre story happen.

He owned our old family Oldsmobile and it finally reached the point of death and sold it to a junkyard. About a year later he has the police knocking on his door at 3 AM or so. Turns out the car was involved in a high speed police chase and serious accident and they came to arrest my brother. They quickly determined he had nothing to do with the incident and he was let go.

The junkyard sold or loaned the car to another party without ever registering the vehicle. So the state of Minnesota thought it still belonged to my brother.

Fast forward to today. I recently sold an old GMC Yukon I had registered in Virginia. As soon as I sold it I went to Virginia's DMV website to do the online form saying I no longer owned the vehicle. It had been registered to me and no longer was and I made certain the state of Virginia knew about this.

This isn't totally analogous to your circumstances but a similar story. I guess the bottom line is when you sell a vehicle to follow up with the state, be that online or at the DMV.

That's probably not helpful but maybe the state can provide you with some documentation that your former vehicle was sold and is no longer registered to you and hasn't been for several years.

[NYCfixie]

Just a word of advice, ALWAYS complete a BoS, and possibly a copy of the signed title.

^^^^^THIS^^^^^

I have not been burned but know others who have had experiences similar to yours and other shady dealings. Based on this, I will only trade-in or sell used cars to reputable dealers. I will NEVER sell a car privately.

I sold 2 scooters while living in NJ and both private buyers wanted me to leave the title name blank and not complete a bill of sale. I simply said, "No thanks and have a nice day". They both came back within a few days and agreed to the "official" sale and I made copies of everything before they left (including their drivers licenses). I used the canned legal forms you can get online for the BOS.

[vertical_doug]

Tow Truck operators are one of those professions that transcends cultures, national borders, language and are crooked pretty much everywhere. I have a doozy of a story from Japan, but I digress.

I'd ask 'again' for them to show you the documents proving you to be the owner. I'd also check to make sure they do not attempt to target your credit report. An abandoned car will affect your credit score and probably insurance rates. (not to mention other sh!t)

[j44ke]

I've heard about this before when I lived in Richmond VA. Tow companies would keep an eye out for cars that didn't move frequently, then they'd tow the car as derelict and send the owner a bill that they estimated would exceed the ability of the owner to pay. When the owner indeed couldn't pay, they'd place a lien on the car, and the owner would then often sign over the car to the tow company to get the lien removed. Then they'd sell it for scrap, to a stripper for parts or whoever. Usually they preyed on low income car owners in poorer neighborhoods, and sometimes things were facilitated intentionally or unintentionally by members of the local constabulary.

[Saab2000]

I've heard about this before when I lived in Richmond VA. Tow companies would keep an eye out for cars that didn't move frequently, then they'd tow the car as derelict and send the owner a bill that they estimated would exceed the ability of the owner to pay. When the owner indeed couldn't pay, they'd place a lien on the car, and the owner would then often sign over the car to the tow company to get the lien removed. Then they'd sell it for scrap, to a stripper for parts or whoever. Usually they preyed on low income car owners in poorer neighborhoods, and sometimes things were facilitated intentionally or unintentionally by members of the local constabulary.

I think it's not dissimilar in Virginia Beach. A buddy of mine parked in a lot that was admittedly posted as a tow-away zone (about 9 PM - empty lot) but he ended up spending several hours and hundreds of dollars to get his car back. The punishment did not fit the crime and it is my opinion that these legalized thieves, extortionists shouldn't be allowed to operate. Of course, I assume many are owned/operated by the same folks who enact the laws in this area.

Tangentially, it is my understanding that many traffic cameras are not owned or operated by the states/counties/cities/municipalities in which they operate. They are privately owned and the owners pocket much of the fine that is collected. I wonder who lobbies hardest to have them installed.... It's not about public safety; rather it's about profit. Same as the towing companies. There's virtually no public service being done for anyone except the folks who own the towing companies.

[nahtnoj]

Was the title transfer done at a bank or a notary?

[Bryan Perkins]

To qualify my answer, I'm a current police officer in Indianapolis, IN. As far as I'm aware, there is no "national VIN search/database" to which a tow company would ordinarily be privy. Most DMV/BMV's consider vehicle registration info "proprietary", and typically don't freely share it, not even with law enforcement in other states (Illinois). Abandoning a vehicle is a crime in many states, but a tow company can't charge you with a crime. So don't worry about that. Regardless, you'll want some kind of verification that the vehicle was titled/registered to someone other than you at some point after your sale. On the civil law side, if the tow company wants to bill you and enter "debt collection", they are legally required to provide you with a verification that YOU owe the debt within X-number of days (30?) of your request, otherwise, the debt can be considered invalid.

[dually]

Was the title transfer done at a bank or a notary?

No, it was not. The state of ND does not 'require' such thing. However, since hindsight is 20/20, it would be a wise thing to do.

To qualify my answer, I'm a current police officer in Indianapolis, IN. As far as I'm aware, there is no "national VIN search/database" to which a tow company would ordinarily be privy. Most DMV/BMV's consider vehicle registration info "proprietary", and typically don't freely share it, not even with law enforcement in other states (Illinois). Abandoning a vehicle is a crime in many states, but a tow company can't charge you with a crime. So don't worry about that. Regardless, you'll want some kind of verification that the vehicle was titled/registered to someone other than you at some point after your sale. On the civil law side, if the tow company wants to bill you and enter "debt collection", they are legally required to provide you with a verification that YOU owe the debt within X-number of days (30?) of your request, otherwise, the debt can be considered invalid.

That is good to know. The car has South Dakota plates on it, you would think these scholarly folk would think to run the VIN against the SD DMV system rather than North Dakota... They do have it stated as follows:

"Notice is hereby given that the 1997 Nissan Pathfinder March 29 belonging to you as of today, April 26, has a balace of $1600. An additional $50 per calendar day will be added for storage. You have 30 days to clear up this amount. If this balance is not cleared up by May, 25 2016 you have the option to pay the towing fees of $200 and surrender the title and the keys to ASSHOLE towing. This action will settle the outstanding bill."

[Bryan Perkins]

Ha, that tow company seems to operate in a lot of states. Ask them when, where, and under what circumstances they recovered the truck. I know you said "abandoned", but in a parking lot? End of a dirt road? Ask how they came to you but not whoever that plate is registered to. Then, if you have the SD plate number, take it to your friendly neighborhood police officer and see if he'll run it for you. If the registration matches the truck, but not you, then you're good. The tow company probably can't legally sell it without a title or some proof of ownership, but that varies from state to state. The biggest headache would be if they decide to turn their lawyer on you and you have to go to court.

[j44ke]

Also consider getting a lawyer for yourself. A lot of these things evaporate as soon as the instigating party gets an official letter. And it sounds like you need someone who knows how the law works without you having to reinvent the wheel.

[dually]

Also consider getting a lawyer for yourself. A lot of these things evaporate as soon as the instigating party gets an official letter. And it sounds like you need someone who knows how the law works without you having to reinvent the wheel.

Great suggestion. I'll see how this week finishes out before I make any calls.

[summilux]

Drifting the thread, but there is a 2014 Argentinian movie called Wild Tales related to tow trucks. Wild Tales is a collection of 6 short films all loosely about some form of revenge. One of these shorts is about a man who gets his car towed unjustly and gets his revenge by...Watch the movie. It's alternatively funny, sad, bizarre, gross and endearing. Perfect for this place.

[dually]

I just cut out of work for a bit and stopped back over at the tow yard (a whopping 2 min drive, kinda embarrassed to have them as work neighbors) and according to the snotty woman at the front desk everything is cleared up when the representative from the ND DOT contacted the towing company. I requested documentation that would state no further action will be taken, and in typical fashion, they were unable to provide. Time will tell. If I do receive a bill from a collections bureau, a lawyer will be summoned and I will have no problem enacting a civil suit.

[AngryScientist]

i've bought and sold a number of used cars, jet skis, boats and trailers. every one of those transactions has been on the fringes of legal, most of the time despite my best efforts. when you're dealing with the lower end of the market, $3k cars and stuff like that, almost everything is shady in some way or another. the problem is that covering your ass often costs time and money, which doesnt seem justifiably worth it at the time for a $3k truck, and everything seems OK, until it's not...

[mmoore]

I seem to remember a thread on a local car forum that someone sold a cheap car of sorts which was crashed on the way home... the purchaser bailed on the car and left it in the road... minutes after buying it.

get some sort of bill of sale with timestamp!

[Drew]

If the snots who do this stuff would spend half of their efforts to cheat, on doing something legit, they just might make something of themselves. It's like people who spend hours making cheat sheets for tests in college, only to realize that they've actually learned the material when they made the cheat sheet. Shortsightedness of people amazes me. Anyway... carry on...

[Dancingbear]

If I sell a used vehicle here in MN, I won't consider the transaction done until both myself and seller go to a Government Service center and transfer the title. Every time I've bought one I've been accompanied by the seller to the Service center to make sure I do the same. Takes some time, but would have made the towing situation the buyers problem, as it should be.

[twowheels]

You should always do a bill of sale signed by both buyer and seller when you sell or buy a vehicle so you can avoid this type of BS. I'd write a polite letter to the towing company telling it you sold the vehicle in Feb 2012, it therefore sent its letter to the wrong party, and please don't bother you anymore. You've already given the matter far more attention than it deserves. If the towing company persists, you have remedies under unlawful debt collection statutes.