Michael Brown Shooting

[doomridesout]

Just thought I'd post something here about the Michael Brown shooting in Ferguson, MO this last week. My Facebook feed has been blowing up about it and I have little to add, but I feel like this forum is a cadre of white privilege that needs this voiced. I hope that this sparks a respectful discussion of police militarization and accountability, as well as perhaps touching on the state of race in America in 2014. It's not fun, it's not pretty, it's not 10+ pages of tubular tire navel-gazing, but THIS is the reality we live in and the position of privilege so many of us here occupy demands that we have something to say. It's touchy. I want to make sure this conversation touches this place too, because talking about this IS democracy in America.

[mjbabcock]

An interesting read
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/13/us...tter.html?_r=0

I don't know that boiling this place down to a "cadre of white privilege" does justice to either the diversity of this place, or the multi-faceted nature of the problems associated with race in America. I'm going to hazard a guess that many of us are doing our small part to promote social justice across our society, more than you'd guess. If this were a forum on investment banking or hostile takeovers...you might get more traction.

That said, I think the issues of power when it comes to race, sexuality, gender, social class, etc. have millions of very deep roots and some extremely vested parties...The death of three black men at the hands of police in the last month is abhorrent, but arguably only in the media because of the responses of the community. I find it more distressful that those same folks don't get up in arms about the quality of education in inner cities.

[Too Tall]

Chief, if you are going to support this discussion put a real name with the title. I'll back you as long as this remains mostly civil.
Thirty second rule in play, you get to take back the name calling.
I'll start: Taking part in "the system" vis-a-vis voting, taking a seat in local government all are things that help resist indifference. It is truly unfortunate that awareness happens on the backs of savaged lives. #lifefukinmatters

Just thought I'd post something here about the Michael Brown shooting in Ferguson, MO this last week. My Facebook feed has been blowing up about it and I have little to add, but I feel like this forum is a cadre of white privilege that needs this voiced. I hope that this sparks a respectful discussion of police militarization and accountability, as well as perhaps touching on the state of race in America in 2014. It's not fun, it's not pretty, it's not 10+ pages of tubular tire navel-gazing, but THIS is the reality we live in and the position of privilege so many of us here occupy demands that we have something to say. It's touchy. I want to make sure this conversation touches this place too, because talking about this IS democracy in America.

[mjbabcock]

I'll start: Taking part in "the system" vis-a-vis voting, taking a seat in local government

Participatory democracy only works if folks participate...and they only know how to participate if educated. If there's no participation, we're all taking a step backwards a few hundred years.

[Jonathan]

We don't yet know everything that happened and I'm not sure the locals want to find out. Something seems very wrong in this case. I'm really at a loss for words. I lifted this pic from the times. I think it says it all.

[dgaddis]

I lifted this pic from the times. I think it says it all.

Without context it's hard to say what that photo shows. I've also read reports of police responding to a group gathering with weapons, and one of them pointed a handgun at the police. He was then shot and is in critical condition. He's 17 I think.

Its a messed up situation.

[ryker]

I read one comment on Twitter that said we should call it Fergustan and then petition Obama for humanitarian aid.

[spopepro]

An interesting read
snip... I find it more distressful that those same folks don't get up in arms about the quality of education in inner cities.

Let me tell you about the time that my school district was preparing to implement some support programs to support students who needed it (overwhelmingly black and brown). There were meetings held at churches in those students' neighborhoods to talk about our ideas, and make sure that we were responsive to the actual needs of those communities. 2 hours beforehand each meeting was filled with white parents from the hills, people who have never been in the neighborhood before, effectively blocking out any chance at giving a voice to those who needed it. And why? To pay for the program the FTE was going to be shifted from the *extra* lab period the AP classes were getting. In the end, the white parents won and kept their privilege. And this was in a district that was actively *trying* to be responsive. How the hell do you get through when the powers are hostile? Assuming it's due to a lack of interest or effort is offensive.

Right now I'm having my time tied up with parents who are demanding meetings because we didn't identify their kids for the accelerated math pathway (skipping and/or compacting 3 years into 2). We spent hours writing assessments, running validity checks to make sure they were bullet-proof, administering and scoring, and now going to meeting after meeting with people who go "Well, my kid is BORED and shouldn't have to be stuck with 'those kids' who drag the class down" (yes, actual quote, from the same group that once said "'those kids' are a real drain on our PTA resources). What should I be doing? I should be working on piloting language-specific assessments so we can find more accurately when to move students out of our "newcomers" class (less than 12mo in USA) so they don't keep falling further and further behind. Instead I'm servicing angry white parents who just want more for their kids.

Look, I've stuck around in my profession because I think it's the only way to actually fix this shit. I have no patience for white liberal naval gazing and kum ba yahs and let's talk about this more to make us feel better and a goddamm bike forum isn't going to fix shit for my students who are dead, (2 so far in my career, although one was a suicide, both of color) incarcerated, (one was arrested in my classroom, again all of color), or homeless (do you wake a sleeping homeless kids up in your class? Because you know they are asleep because they are now safe.). Yeah, get involved, but not until you actually have a clue.

[Matthew J]

Don't want to comment directly on Ferguson as I know too little about what happened / is happening.

The growing militancy of U.S. police departments is something that goes against what I always believed this nation is about and really needs to be reconsidered.

[dnades]

I think putting advanced tactical weapons in the hands of local US based police departments is a huge concern. The idea that only certain American citizens deserve that type of treatment should be a wake up call for the rest of us further up the economic ladder. Anyone with a weapon that can put out multiple bullets per second does not make me feel safer. As soon as that person pulls the trigger in an urban environment there will be lots of casualties. Look at what happens with just handguns fired by police. I think those are 'only' 21 shot capacity. What a mess....

[Corso]

So I guess it’s best to NOT have any police in black districts, unless they are black themselves?

Hey, maybe I’m on to something here, perhaps if a black cop shoots a black kid (for whatever reason) Rev Al and Jesse would be out of a job.

Oh yea, I forgot, we already have Detroit.

Why were the cops in Mr Brown’s neighborhood anyway? Nothing better to do? Or patrolling an area that has a large criminal element?

Jonathan, that photo does not say it all. What it does say, is that a black guy is taunting the police. I hope the next picture is the guy being cuffed.

The shooting of a minority is not the green light to steal & burn. Race relations is a large, complex issue, but a civilized community begins with following the law.

The police have the right to defend themselves. They don’t break out the riot gear to serve speeding tickets. Assault rifles? They have to be armed as well as the opposition. Don’t want to see riot police?

DON”T RIOT.

[jitahs]

when to move students out of our "newcomers" class (less than 12mo in USA) so they don't keep falling further and further behind...

A local school is preparing for a "massive" influx of Central American students by way of Texas, perhaps (for sure) taking advantage of our Left Coast's liberal...everything. Not computing how my tax dollars are a future investment into my community/country. Brain fritz.

[monadnocky]

The growing militancy of U.S. police departments is something that goes against what I always believed this nation is about and really needs to be reconsidered.

This is a real concern to me. Recently, my (former) neighborhood of Keene, NH, arguably The Safest Place In The Entire Universe, received a federal grant for the purpose of buying a Bearcat vehicle (you can GIS it; it's basically a quasi-military tank-like wheeled vehicle). Although it cost the good people of Cheshire County (or all of NH) not one penny, many members of the community objected to the police department's procurement of this vehicle for a variety of reasons. In the end, the county did get the vehicle, under the auspices of "it can do other things besides murder people" (like what? shoot turkeys? rescue people from rabid opossums? take up space in a firehouse somewhere?) but I'm really not seeing the logic of militarizing a small-ish, well-liked and respected police force (Keene and the surrounding towns). What possible, possible good can come out of handing over such hardware to a small-town police force? it just further separates the cop on the street from joe citizen.

Sad.

[jitahs]

I think putting advanced tactical weapons in the hands of local US based police departments is a huge concern. The idea that only certain American citizens deserve that type of treatment should be a wake up call for the rest of us further up the economic ladder. Anyone with a weapon that can put out multiple bullets per second does not make me feel safer. As soon as that person pulls the trigger in an urban environment there will be lots of casualties. Look at what happens with just handguns fired by police. I think those are 'only' 21 shot capacity. What a mess....

When the citizenry lay in wait with ak47s, over 600 rounds fired and human shields used and discarded, we do have a Right to Bear Arms problem: Stockton bank robbery hostage killed by police gunfire, officials say - LA Times

[mjbabcock]

Yeah, get involved, but not until you actually have a clue.

Folks here have a clue. I'd argue that those white parents that destroyed efforts at promoting quality education to those in need had a really good clue as well. I teach and taught. Native American, Hispanic, poor White, African American, Jr. High, High, and college levels. I've lost students (current and former) and watched as others got totted off by police for assault, weapons, or other assorted charges. Actively engaged in research trying to improve the quality of education all students get. Shit, I had an African American man I was helping with math confide that his wife and five kids were living out of two AstroVans.

Oh, I always let them sleep. I try to get them to stay after and have snacks around to encourage them to hang out in their safe spaces.

[Corso]

[QUOTE Instead I'm servicing angry white parents who just want more for their kids.

Look, I've stuck around in my profession because I think it's the only way to actually fix this shit. I have no patience for white liberal naval gazing and kum ba yahs and let's talk about this more to make us feel better and a goddamm bike forum isn't going to fix shit for my students who are dead, (2 so far in my career, although one was a suicide, both of color) incarcerated, (one was arrested in my classroom, again all of color), or homeless (do you wake a sleeping homeless kids up in your class? Because you know they are asleep because they are now safe.). Yeah, get involved, but not until you actually have a clue.[/QUOTE]

Have a clue? Who do you think FUNDS most of the programs in this country? Your teaching job? Maybe the angry white parents want more, because they are the ones PAYING for it!

Don’t get mad at me for pointing out the simple fact: the wealthy pay the taxes that support the rest of “us”, like the top 1% pays 43% of all taxes.

And guess which group pays the most to hospitals, universities, museums, food pantries, basically every charity?

And yet politicians keep painting the white, wealthy class as evil, just to get the vote from the majority of those who benefit the most from the wealthy.

Sometimes I wish that 1% would move to Canada, and watch as the US goes the way of Ancient Rome.

You sound angry. I hope your anger doesn’t carry over into the classroom.

[spopepro]

Yep, Corso, you have the money so you win. Feels good to win, right?

[davids]

I read one comment on Twitter that said we should call it Fergustan and then petition Obama for humanitarian aid.

And your point is what, exactly?


There is still a hole at the center of this event, and that will be filled only with the results of a thorough objective investigation into Michael Brown's shooting and death. Let's hope, for the sake of justice and healing, that it happens.

The Ferguson police department's behavior towards the protesters and reporters covering this has been brutal, as has been their stonewalling of information and their indifference and hostility to their community. It should be decisively condemned and addressed ASAP. It also suggests a pattern of behavior, but doesn't prove that an officer murdered Michael Brown.

...as far as "white privilege" – I would be shocked if most of us aren't middle/upper income light-skinned guys who speak really good English. So, yeah, we're privileged. And we can have an interesting conversation about that and make generalizations about our learned biases. But that seems like a tangent to the real violence being done on Ferguson Missouri.

[Corso]

Yep, Corso, you have the money so you win. Feels good to win, right?

Don’t count me in that 1%. I’m just glad for ALL of our sakes they “pay their fair share”…

By the way, my mother was a special education teacher in a city public school system, does that rate on your “have a clue” scale at all?

[Matthew J]

So I guess it’s best to NOT have any police in black districts, unless they are black themselves?

Hey, maybe I’m on to something here, perhaps if a black cop shoots a black kid (for whatever reason) Rev Al and Jesse would be out of a job.

There have been incidents involving black police officers that drew negative comments from Sharpton, Jackson and other AA community leaders. For whatever reason, you overlook reporting on them.

Why were the cops in Mr Brown’s neighborhood anyway? Nothing better to do? Or patrolling an area that has a large criminal element?

Michael Brown caught the attention of this particular cop because he was jaywalking.

Jonathan, that photo does not say it all. What it does say, is that a black guy is taunting the police. I hope the next picture is the guy being cuffed.

Right. Because this is a country where someone in uniform should not have to take lip from a common citizen.

The shooting of a minority is not the green light to steal & burn. Race relations is a large, complex issue, but a civilized community begins with following the law.

The police have the right to defend themselves. They don’t break out the riot gear to serve speeding tickets. Assault rifles? They have to be armed as well as the opposition. Don’t want to see riot police?

DON”T RIOT.

Thing is, other than a gas station getting banged up and a couple other store front windows being broken on the first night after the kid was gunned down and left lying dead in the street for more than six hours, I've not seen any reports of rioting or looting. Rather, peaceful protestors are being dispersed by overwhelming force.

As far as the police needing to be armed as well as the opposition, can you provide evidence of even one of the protestors having been armed?