Winter Olympic Discussion

[vertical_doug]

With the Swedes ruling the XC relays and the implosion of the Norwegian team, it appears the country of Norway is taking a page from the US Speed Skating team and blaming the waxers. The norwegian men looked gassed from the get go in the relay to me.

US Speed Skating blaming the suit is just deflecting from a program in disarray. This is not Eric Heiden at the 1980 Olympics. The reality is the US Women won no medals in Vancouver and winning no medals here seems par for the course. The American men won 4 medals in Vancouver, but 2 were Shani Davis , the other Chad Hedrick and team pursuit. Chad is retired and Shani is now 31 years old. Seems easier to miss your peak the older you get.

Watching the men's 1500m last night, even the NBC announcer said Shani did not have the leg turnover in the corners and appeared gassed on the last lap. I think the US trains on drier ice and are better gliders. The humid ice in Sochi doesn't suit them.

[SteveP]

i thk shani has had his days - and wonderful they have been- but to expect the sacrifices to be made year after year is too much.
same applies to shawn white and probably more.

been there, done that.
time to move on.
i dont buy its the suits, but what do i know?

[TMB]

norway can suck it.
we took all 3 medals in the thing where you ski along a fence and then ski backward for awhile and then turn around and go forward.

haha
america #1.

Seems the Netherlands could say the same thing about the speed skating track. But they wouldn't.

[j44ke]

It is the lack of Chobani yogurt. That's where the Americans get all their power.

[j44ke]

Charlotte Kalla. Goosebumps! What a performance.

There is a YouTube video where she is working out. Doing some kind of hang upside down crunch. Seriously solid and strong.

[TMB]

There is a YouTube video where she is working out. Doing some kind of hang upside down crunch. Seriously solid and strong.

Good lord ...



I am fooling myself.

[SteveP]

norwegian nordic coach just filed for unemployment benefits ...
which are probably very good in norway.

so thats something.

[s_curran]

Charlotte Kalla. Goosebumps! What a performance.

wow, that was awesome, my sister was saying it helped her produce her best effort on trainers, convinced me to go for a nice hard run in the snow too. I've never watched much cross country skiing, I'm definitely a fan now, I've never tried it either, always wanted too though.

The USA Russia hockey game was also an awesome watch.

[joosttx]

During the relays the commentator, forget his name, said that it was not the wax that was the issue for the Norwegians it was another "set up aspect" that the Nordie trainers miscalculated. Can someone adroit or at least pinnacle (sorry bad MTB word play joke) speculate to what the commentator was referring to?

In other news Norwegians moms are making Colombian soccer fans seem civilized. Cross-country skier’s mom declares him “the worst Norwegian� | OlympicTalk

[Moke]

My take is the Dutch and Swede coaching staffs will get big raises and heads are rolling in Norway. I would compare the Norway disaster to the Belgians failing to get a rider in the top 5 at the cyclocross worlds. When your mom dis's you on TV, that is bad.
Can't help you with an expanation about Norway, but things I have read and heard it they spent a ton on ski development and there may be something wrong with the platform as well as not hitting the wax. Wax to xc skiing is probably as important as rubber/tread and pressure choices in cyclocross. They really live and die by their waxers. Norway has had a super history of nailing their skiis in big events.

As far as the US skaters, it ain't the suits, our guys aren't just going fast. Shani's suit looked like his big brothers, but most of the other skaters didn't look like sack clothing. I have know idea why the Dutch are just slaying it this year. They have a grand fondness of skating and always do very well, but daym they are just killing it this year.

Now if we can just get that rock to stay in the house. Any sport that involves drinking, throwing rocks and a broom, I am so down.

[Moke]

And I forgot to mention the South Korean short track folks. Another big oops.

[vertical_doug]

During the relays the commentator, forget his name, said that it was not the wax that was the issue for the Norwegians it was another "set up aspect" that the Nordie trainers miscalculated. Can someone adroit or at least pinnacle (sorry bad MTB word play joke) speculate to what the commentator was referring to?

In other news Norwegians moms are making Colombian soccer fans seem civilized. Cross-country skier’s mom declares him “the worst Norwegian� | OlympicTalk

He was talking about structure. Structure is like the tire tread on the base of the ski. If you look at the base of a ski set up for warmer snow, there are little groves ground in the base. In theory the grooves are little channels to let the water flow faster under the ski. Ski tuners can get pretty geeky about structure.

[tele]

He was talking about structure. Structure is like the tire tread on the base of the ski. If you look at the base of a ski set up for warmer snow, there are little groves ground in the base. In theory the grooves are little channels to let the water flow faster under the ski. Ski tuners can get pretty geeky about structure.

Structure is about as geeky as it gets for ski prep. The big issue for me, and the NBC commentator touched on this, is after the first race or two, the Norwegians knew their structure was shit, why did they not change it? For most of us mortals changing your base structure is not easy or cost effective but at that level get some new skis and do something different. Even the American skaters tried to plug that vent on their suits.

[j44ke]

The color commentator also intimated that there was arrogance in the Norwegian team, that this had been going on all year in lead up to the Olympics and that the arrogance had contributed to some of the decisions made is about ski prep. He also pointed out that the French had some of the fastest skis on the course, which was pretty apparent on the downhill sections. That made the last leg by the Russian skier, who either had slower skis OR was duping the French skier into the front, pretty impressive. Good thing for them too as Putin the Pointy was in the audience.

Al Trautwig, who was the presenter for cross country, is worthless. He provided a solid example of how not to announce. The other guy was good and should have been spared Trautwig's interjections of things like "wouldn't it be something if this came down to the Italians and the French" or whatever. At one point, Trautwig said, "Everyone makes it safely through the corner" as the camera showed pretty clearly that everyone was actually crashing into each other in the corner.

[caleb]

Al Trautwig, who was the presenter for cross country, is worthless. He provided a solid example of how not to announce. The other guy was good and should have been spared Trautwig's interjections of things like "wouldn't it be something if this came down to the Italians and the French" or whatever. At one point, Trautwig said, "Everyone makes it safely through the corner" as the camera showed pretty clearly that everyone was actually crashing into each other in the corner.

The content announcer is Chad Salmela, the head coach at St. Scholastica in Duluth. He has a deep background in the sport: College of St Scholastica - 2013-14 Men's Nordic Skiing Coaching Staff I think he does a really good job providing content and perspective (e.g. identifying that the Norwegian issue is their base grinds, not their wax).

Trautwig isn't that bad. His main job is to make the commentary work for TV and be the professional announcer. His commentary could be worse.

[caleb]

Structure is about as geeky as it gets for ski prep. The big issue for me, and the NBC commentator touched on this, is after the first race or two, the Norwegians knew their structure was shit, why did they not change it? For most of us mortals changing your base structure is not easy or cost effective but at that level get some new skis and do something different. Even the American skaters tried to plug that vent on their suits.

I don't think the issue is their ability to change structure (the Norwegians were the first ones to put a ski grinder in a box truck and bring it to races for new grinds on-site ten or fifteen years ago), it's that they haven't developed grinds for snow that warm. It takes a long time to develop new grinds, and it's too late now: Caldwell Sport | Grind Development

[j44ke]

I don't think the issue is their ability to change structure (the Norwegians were the first ones to put a ski grinder in a box truck and bring it to races for new grinds on-site ten or fifteen years ago), it's that they haven't developed grinds for snow that warm. It takes a long time to develop new grinds, and it's too late now: Caldwell Sport | Grind Development

Huh - that's really interesting actually. Opens up a whole other parameter.

Yeah, Al Trautwig isn't horrible. I just hear him during Knicks coverage and anything Knicks right now makes me cringe.

[SteveP]

nordic races should be raced on the same skis.. like sailboat races... or nascar or a lot of other sports.
identical equipment or close to it.

here are 150 prs of identically prepared skis. pick a pr to race on. or
send yr 6 pr of skis to the waxing center and pick them up 2 hrs before the race and go.

[TMB]

I don't think the issue is their ability to change structure (the Norwegians were the first ones to put a ski grinder in a box truck and bring it to races for new grinds on-site ten or fifteen years ago), it's that they haven't developed grinds for snow that warm. It takes a long time to develop new grinds, and it's too late now: Caldwell Sport | Grind Development

Here is an interesting article, more info about the snow ...

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/17/sp...isis.html?_r=2



And if you want REALLY geek out on the XC skiing, there is a thread running at cyclingnews forums - just on XC skiing and biathlon. It is over 350 pages, a whole bunch of northern europeans geeing out over XC skiing. You think bike forums are bad .....

[HorsCat]

Maybe it's the time he spent covering the tour, but I, too, don't mind Trautwig. Maybe the time he spent next to Phil and Paul is the reason he calls some things completely opposite to how they actually are.

Separately, is curling the type of sport where men and women could compete equally against each other> Not really a curling fan at all (like most of these winter sports, truth be told), but the thought has occurred to me and I'd like to hear from someone who actually knows a thing or two about it...