Sachs lugs, am I doing it wrong?

[pruckelshaus]

Building frame 4, my first using eRichie's lugs (newvex, with newvex crown and shell, to be precise) with PegoRichie. Compared to my experiences with Llewelyn lugs that I had used previously, the fit is beyond tight, and I find myself having to hog/file out the lug & shell sockets to achieve the desired fit with the tube - filing what I feel is quite a bit when compare to some other lugsets that I've used. The tube end is cleaned and hit with abrasive cloth. Is this the usual experience, or am I missing something?

Thanks,

Pete

[echelon_john]

Vernier caliper. Check spec on the lug all the way around. Check spec on the tube all the way around. Which is off?

Some filing/blacksmithing is normal even when things measure out to spec. But what are you seeing with the calipers?

[Dave Anderson]

I agree with echelon John on this one. Its normal to have to hone or bore out lugs a little (sometimes a lot). Some more than others, but I've never noticed anything out the of the ordinary with the Sachs lugs. It can vary from casting run to casting run as well, and I've had to do similar work on Llewelyn lugs and most others, actually.

I almost never file lugs out though. I think that its quicker to use shop rolls on a die grinder or a sanding roll on a Dremel or drill. As an FYI, here is how I typically do it:



Basically I have a sanding roll chucked up in a drill that's fastened to a bracket that I clamp in my vice (Note: Caution needs to be used with this approach because the lugs get hot and if they catch, they can spin on you, etc).

Dave

[Doug Fattic]

Pete, it is typical that tubes vary in their outside diameter enough so it is unlikely they will exactly fit a lug. I always match the tubes that will be used with the lugs before I begin adjusting the inside diameter of the sockets. One great way to enlarge a lug sightly is to use a good lug vise tightened down a bit. Don Ferris taught me this trick with his lug vise.

[ToddFarr]

Doug,
Does the lug vice stretch the metal on the lug when tightened passed snug?

FYI, I typically use the Dremel approach, hand filling just took too long IMO.

[savine]

I use the same method as Dave does with no probs and build mostly with Dazzas lugs, though I find that it's usually the bottom bracket down tube conection that needs doing.

[echelon_john]

Tubes are very frequently ovalized slightly rather than perfectly round. Again, use the caliper to check this. Nothing wrong with sticking the tube end in a bench vise on the wide axis and 'showing it who's boss' (credit to eR) with a good squeeze to get it as close to perfectly round as possible. Do this BEFORE you've spent any time mitering it, as the shape of the mouth will obviously change when you manipulate it like this.

I also use a sanding drum to clean/prep and, if necessary, enlarge lug sockets, mounted on an air die grinder. I use an Anvil lug vise, focusing on one part of the socket at a time. You CAN use a carbide bit to hog out material more quickly if necessary, but this introduces significantly more risk of chatter/tool going out of control than a sanding drum. I'll echo that, with Dave's method above, you DEFINITELY want to wear gloves and eye protection (and, until you've done it a couple of times, maybe body armor!) because if the lug catches the sander wrong, it can become a spiky missile in short order. Ask me how I know... ; )

I prefer an air tool to an electrical tool for this kind of work because it decelerates nearly immediately when you come off the 'gas', whereas an electrical tool has more of a wind-down. I think air is safer. Just louder when the compressor kicks on.

[Bobqzz]

I don't build frames, but in the auto industry when you want enlarge a precision hole honing is the preferred method.

The Brush Research flex hones do a great job leaving the hole round and are inexpensive. Just a thought.

Flex-Hone, Industrial Brushes, Wire Brushes

[e-RICHIE]

I do two things to show a lugs who's boss.
One, I have an expander that never fails.
Or two, I use an 80-grit A.O. cloth roll-up chucked into my hand drill.

[Dave Anderson]

<snip>.... I'll echo that, with Dave's method above, you DEFINITELY want to wear gloves and eye protection (and, until you've done it a couple of times, maybe body armor!) because if the lug catches the sander wrong, it can become a spiky missile in short order. Ask me how I know... ; )

This bears repeating for a third time!...... I wear welding gloves with lugs as can be seen in the second photo, and always wear safety glasses around the shop. Also, keep your sanding roll significantly smaller than the lug socket. For example, do not use a 1" diameter roll on a 1 1/8" socket....the roll can expand enough to catch, etc.

Dave

[e-RICHIE]

This bears repeating for a third time!...... I wear welding gloves with lugs as can be seen in the second photo, and always wear safety glasses around the shop. Also, keep your sanding roll significantly smaller than the lug socket. For example, do not use a 1" diameter roll on a 1 1/8" socket....the roll can expand enough to catch, etc.

Dave

There is nothing like a moving drill chuck to show you who's really the boss atmo!

[steve garro]

This bears repeating for a third time!...... I wear welding gloves with lugs as can be seen in the second photo, and always wear safety glasses around the shop. Also, keep your sanding roll significantly smaller than the lug socket. For example, do not use a 1" diameter roll on a 1 1/8" socket....the roll can expand enough to catch, etc.

Dave

Were all these included in my Hasbro (TM) "Will it Bleed" playset?
- Garro.

[echelon_john]

I think I read about a lug mishap in "Callous Alice and the Nasty Gash"

Were all these included in my Hasbro (TM) "Will it Bleed" playset?
- Garro.

[pruckelshaus]

I think I read about a lug mishap in "Callous Alice and the Nasty Gash"

Sounds more like niche porn.