What the fuck at the Boston Marathon?

[lukasz]

Chechens. Makes no sense whatsoever. I had friends who covered Grozny and Chechnya who are scratching their heads. I'm interested to see how the allegiances unpack afterwards. Seems really important to get the remaining guy to surrender alive.

I keep thinking of Putin's offer to help solve the crime very early in the chronology of events. That seemed like a wry joke then and just seems doubly strange now.

At least most people don't automatically associate Chechens with Islam. Unfortunately they sound like fundies of that variety. Not much explanation needed. Plane tickets to Moscow would have been expensive for them so why not attack the other global hegemon.

[SeanEasley]

Wow, so if we're to take those captions seriously, he doesn't (sorry, didn't--may he NOT rest in peace) understand 'us' and didn't call any of us friends. Also, pretty much passed judgement on all Americans as not having any values that he could respect...except of course the opportunity to come here and take advantage of our system and opportunity to pursue wealth and status, which by all appearances from those photos, was certainly something he was interested in. Fucking narcissistic hypocrit.

so sickened by stuff like this. I think I need to go live in the hills somewhere far from most people pretty soon before I start advocating for closing the borders completely. Please don't flame me cuz I know that's not the answer, I'm just pissed when I see crap like this. America is the shining beacon and at the same time #1 villian for anyone when things just don't go their way.

Hopefully more answers are going to come out of this thing soon.

[j44ke]

Reading more about some of the things people are digging up - Facebook postings of all things, who knew? - I am going to suggest that being Chechen (or an immigrant) will have very little to do with their actions, except as a factor in their feelings of isolation from American society which in turn contributed to the sense that they were being treated unfairly in some way, victimized, and thus had to strike out. And their choice of religion to latch onto as a sort of self-preservative mechanism. And I am betting they will figure out that the older brother was the active member (the one with the issues and motivation) and the younger brother was the complicit member of the duo. So in the end, (again, I am guessing) it has a good chance of being a case of alienation, isolation, some sort of persecution complex and a brother-brother dynamic. What I mean is that this is going to be more of a mental health issue, not an underlying international conspiracy. Like Sean says, narcissistic.

Just keep in mind, that kid up in Connecticut was born bred and raised in America. Evil is cosmopolitan.

[burgess1108]

Some interesting captions in a photo essay about the older brother's boxing: Will Box For Passport - Images | Johannes Hirn

So his girlfriend converts to islam, but he wants to box under the US flag in the Olympics. Great. I hope the Southies catch this guy before the FBI does.

[j44ke]

So his girlfriend converts to islam, but he wants to box under the US flag in the Olympics. Great. I hope the Southies catch this guy before the FBI does.

The boxer brother has already been shot dead, correct? So you get your wish?

[jitahs]

Reading more about some of the things people are digging up - Facebook postings of all things, who knew? - I am going to suggest that being Chechen (or an immigrant) will have very little to do with their actions, except as a factor in their feelings of isolation from American society which in turn contributed to the sense that they were being treated unfairly in some way, victimized, and thus had to strike out. And their choice of religion to latch onto as a sort of self-preservative mechanism. And I am betting they will figure out that the older brother was the active member (the one with the issues and motivation) and the younger brother was the complicit member of the duo. So in the end, (again, I am guessing) it has a good chance of being a case of alienation, isolation, some sort of persecution complex and a brother-brother dynamic. What I mean is that this is going to be more of a mental health issue, not an underlying international conspiracy. Like Sean says, narcissistic.

Just keep in mind, that kid up in Connecticut was born bred and raised in America. Evil is cosmopolitan.

A culture & tradition of terroristic activities has deep roots in its progeny. Plus they're losers.

[jitahs]

Sounds like a sunny day in Tel Aviv.

Or Oakland, where the weather is fine.

[j44ke]

A culture & tradition of terroristic activities has deep roots in its progeny. Plus they're losers.

Maybe. But the Chechens in Chechnya know their enemy is in Moscow, not the United States. They don't even like Arabs. During the Chechen War, they'd let the Arab jihadi volunteers go first and get slaughtered and then they'd fight. So being Chechen as the central motivating element doesn't make a lot of sense. I suspect for Putin it is pretty convenient though.

I think the loser part is more of the real deal. Hard to be a man if all evidence to the contrary is presented to you on a daily basis. And if being a man is really really important to you....

But who knows? To blow up a bunch of people you don't know and have done nothing to you at all is fucking psychotic from right from the start. You have just left the boundary of humanity. IMHO.

[mnoble485]

I have always wondered about a mind that could tell itself that the next right thing to do is

Plant a bomb
Kill a bunch of children
Strap a bomb to myself and blow it up
Etc
Etc

Mike

Sent from my iPad using Forum Runner

[caleb]

I have always wondered about a mind that could tell itself that the next right thing to do is

Plant a bomb
Kill a bunch of children
Strap a bomb to myself and blow it up
Etc
Etc

Mike

Sent from my iPad using Forum Runner

For those genuinely interested, Pape's article on the "strategic logic" of suicide bombing might go some distance toward explaining the behavior: http://www.apsanet.org/imgtest/apsraug03pape.pdf

(Whether these guys were "suicide bombers" would seem to be an open question. While their initial attack wasn't suicidal, it appears the attacker who was killed this morning had wired explosives to his body.)

[burgess1108]

The boxer brother has already been shot dead, correct? So you get your wish?

Actually, no.

[jitahs]

What is Homeland Security's budget, many billions.

They don't have one intern even to monitor this apparently:


"Five months before the bombing, 26-year-old Tamerlan Tsarnaev created a playlist dedicated to terrorism on YouTube that included a song called 'I will dedicate my life to Jihad.' He also featured videos recorded by recent converts to Islam."

[doctor855]

What is Homeland Security's budget, many billions.

They don't have one intern even to monitor this apparently:


"Five months before the bombing, 26-year-old Tamerlan Tsarnaev created a playlist dedicated to terrorism on YouTube that included a song called 'I will dedicate my life to Jihad.' He also featured videos recorded by recent converts to Islam."

My parents know a woman that has spent most her life in the FBI. When asked if this country is any safer from attacks after 9/11 she said absolutely not.

[j44ke]

What is Homeland Security's budget, many billions.

They don't have one intern even to monitor this apparently:


"Five months before the bombing, 26-year-old Tamerlan Tsarnaev created a playlist dedicated to terrorism on YouTube that included a song called 'I will dedicate my life to Jihad.' He also featured videos recorded by recent converts to Islam."

Type "Jihad" into YouTube and see what comes up. Now find the next bomber. Retrospect is a great lens.

[jitahs]

My parents know a woman that has spent most her life in the FBI. When asked if this country is any safer from attacks after 9/11 she said absolutely not.

This I believe.

To their credit they thwarted a domestic terrorist attack recently in Oakland, not far from the Oikos massacre.

[SeanEasley]

Holy crap, I just turned off the live CNN feed on my computer at work cuz they found the boys' aunt in Toronto--apparently her wing of the family was only granted asylum in Canada. There she claims to be a 'lawyer' and keeps chastizing the reporters for not 'listening to me!!' as she belts out dis-jointed historical anecdotes about this family in broken english, even throwing in a few curse words on live TV....ow my fcuking head hurts. God bless Canada for having to put up with this one. Apple not far from tree as far as I can see with her behavior. Her explanation for the internet activities that darling Tamerlan was involved in? "you know, kids see shit on youtube and they click on the shit. That's it!"...nothing serious

[jitahs]

Type "Jihad" into YouTube and see what comes up. Now find the next bomber. Retrospect is a great lens.

I'd say "intelligence" was lacking foresight. Plain as day to me monitoring social networks is a no brainer.

[j44ke]

I'd say "intelligence" was lacking foresight. Plain as day to me monitoring social networks is a no brainer.

I know for a fact that they do monitor social networks. Constantly. They have constructed algorithms to look for keywords, phrases, etc. in a number of important languages. They employ as many qualified translators as they can to run through stuff that pops up on the radar piece by piece. But your neighbor's teenage daughter contributes enough crap to the social networks in a single day to make the task impossible as a function of sheer volume.

[sonny]

What is Homeland Security's budget, many billions.

They don't have one intern even to monitor this apparently:


"Five months before the bombing, 26-year-old Tamerlan Tsarnaev created a playlist dedicated to terrorism on YouTube that included a song called 'I will dedicate my life to Jihad.' He also featured videos recorded by recent converts to Islam."

this is the kind of thinking that would have us all surveilled for speech and jailed for future crimes. i am unfamiliar, but i would guess that jihad means something different to many people

there are enough fbi informant entrapment cases already. i am not insensitive to this tragedy, but only so much can and should be done in the name of safety and security. guaranteed rights and private lives of citizens are important.


my heart goes out to all

[burgess1108]

But your neighbor's teenage daughter contributes enough crap to the social networks in a single day to make the task impossible as a function of sheer volume.

But they're solving for that.

NSA's Utah Data Center