Knife Sharpening

[Zimmermanbicycle]

For my kitchen knives I use an 800 waterstone followed by a 5000 waterstone from Japan woodworker.
Check them out, amazing woodworking and kitchen stuff.

The Japan Woodworker Catalog - Sharpening Stones

-Eric

[JTC33]

I have been told that the Edge Pro is the way to go if one does not have a lot of experience using a sharpening stone. The angles are critical and systems that control the angles limit the mistakes.

[Jason Musgrave]

yeah pretty tough to eff up with Edge-Pro imho...

[dhoff]

This has been great! I am glad I asked here. I am clear that both a set of water-stones and an Edge Pro are in order. I do love buying shit. Now, how do I get someone else to pay for it?

[Eric Estlund]

For home use I have great luck with ceramic- including the Spyderco set up. Edge Pro is great, especially if you need to really restore and edge or re-profile the edge grind.

[giordana93]

though it looks like you've made up your mind, I'll throw in .02. I've tried most methods (though not japanese), and find that I come back to DMT diamonds and lately really like the handiness of the smaller (and thankfully cheaper) stones (like these or these). Instead of working them on a bench, I free hand, close to what one does with a sharpening steel. Between the coarse and fine, plus ultra fine, you can get a pretty good edge. The nice thing about the diamonds is the speed (esp. with harder "stainless" steels), and the stones remain flat. Not that it needs mention with this crew, but the judicious (with proper technique) use of the sharpening steel goes a long way to keeping things honed and in less need of frequent sharpening (in the kitchen at least). Traditional stones are still great, but work much better with the higher carbon steels that tend to be a bit softer (and becoming a relic of the past, for better or worse)

[dang]

Dan, you are more than welcome to borrow mine, if it will help make you a more informed decision......

Cools. Maybe I can open a decent bottle to stall you long enough to deliver a few pointers.

[Blue Jays]

I opt to just use coarse stones so even a non-serrated folding knife remains somewhat "toothy" for cutting rope, tape, and similar material.
For smaller folding knives I will typically select a finer grit and hone to a sharper edge.

[Bob Ross]

I am a NYC stagehand.

I heart you guys. Is Norbert Culf still running Local 1?



...oh, and I am definitely reading this entire thread, because my kitchen knives all turn to shit after about a year of my (ab)use.

[WadePatton]

For home use I have great luck with ceramic- including the Spyderco set up. Edge Pro is great, especially if you need to really restore and edge or re-profile the edge grind.

i seed it all now.

hey eric, why the axle stand?

===

[znfdl]

Cools. Maybe I can open a decent bottle to stall you long enough to deliver a few pointers.

Would be my pleasure.....

[Eric Estlund]

why the axle stand?

It adds more stability, and it's in the vein of the historical version this is based off of.

[0nelove]

seconds about 30 to about 40. It´s more tecnique than anything...that said I always used Arkanasas stones and oil.

[Too Tall]

Anyone use chromium oxide powder on a strop?

I'm an Arkansas oil stone fan from boy scout days and recently was looking for a replacement hard stone and see for the first time so called "translucent" Arkansas stones. Are these harder than the black stones I remember?

FWIIW This guy gives good info. wrt stropping http://pinewoodforge.com/index.html

[randonneur]

Anyone use chromium oxide powder on a strop?

yup, i use the green powder on a leather strop. it works wonders for finishing up the edge. Follow it up with stropping on felt with diamond spray if you're feeling really particular.

Freehand sharpening ultimately boils down to technique. Murray Carter can put a better edge on a knife than just about anybody using a (although he usually advocates for japanese water stones). if you haven't built up the technique yet, an edgepro is a great tool.

I wouldn't go too overboard on sharpening supplies unless your knives are up to it, though. You'll want to be working with some nice japanese steel or other similar high-hardness knives. Most henckels/victorinox/wustofs aren't actually as good as people think. Even if your technique was perfect, those blades wouldn't hold the edge very long anyways since the steel is pretty soft.

If you're feeling rich, this place and this place will make you poor.

[AJPM44]

One easy way to learn to sharpen a knife on a waterstone is to use one of those small metal clips used to keep papers together. If you place that on the spine of your knife, it is pretty similar to the edge bevel on a lot of german knives. If you are scared of doing too much or too less of an edge, use a sharpie on your edge to see if you are mimicking the edge that is already there. The more times you do, the angle gets easier and easier to hit.

[Chad]

One easy way to learn to sharpen a knife on a waterstone is to use one of those small metal clips used to keep papers together. If you place that on the spine of your knife, it is pretty similar to the edge bevel on a lot of german knives. If you are scared of doing too much or too less of an edge, use a sharpie on your edge to see if you are mimicking the edge that is already there. The more times you do, the angle gets easier and easier to hit.

I just learned this trick and it gives you great feedback on your angle. Very helpful.

[longlegged]

Kinda like the best bike you have is the one you think of grabbing first before heading out the door, the same goes with sharpeners. The best sharpener is the one you reach for first and do so regularly to keep your knives sharp.

Thus far, I've had good experiences with my Spyderco Sharpmaker for kitchen knives and folding knives.

[WadePatton]

I've graduated a little bit from the EdgePro (only) school.

As i learned how to hone a straight razor free-hand (built-in guide) and bought a 30/60x loupe for REAL edge inspection, I've learned a lot more about cutting edges and the proper sharpening thereof.

Also the Japanese Knife Tech thread here got me cranked as to how easy it is to sharpen a single bevel knife.

SO I now have a set of Norton Waterstones, combo 220/1000, 4000/8000, and the flattening stone. Know that you're going to spend some time flattening brand new Norton Stones. Keeping them flat should be much less hassle.

And I have my Edge Pro. And I use both. Plus ceramics where applicable. It's all about the edge and getting there.

WISH i'd had a good flattening stone sooner.

the 8000 Norton is finer* than my amber Belgian (razor stone). So that my razors now shave better.

I don't strop with paste, just oiled leather (vintage). the edge is mirror-reflective off the 8000.

But that that's too fine for kitchen knives according to Norton.

*Interesting thing is that the "grits" don't line up. Still looking for a cross-ref, but the water-stone and natural stone grit numbers are not the same/same. So there can be some confusion there if you're like me and get caught up with numbers. Micron finish rating is probably the most universal way of reference stones, but not many are described that way. More study determined that the problem is different standards of different sorts of abrasives and that they vary by location.

here's a handy guide: http://www.sharpeningsupplies.com/Sh...rt-W21C60.aspx

Also, there are a lot of little kinks to using the Edge Pro most effectively. My advice, watch the videos and start with high-carbon knives in fair-to-better condition (as opposed to harder steels and major corrections). Then match the factory edge EVERY chance you get. Pay attention to stone wear, and avoid big corrections to heels and bevels if you want to prolong the flatness of your stones. Use marker and magnifier OFTEN to check actual contact--check/set contact with polish tape or finest stone. Use it some then look back at the videos.

And the coolest trick for the Edge Pro---is that the DMT 6x2 diamond plate fits into it and SHOULD be used for major corrections and also doubles as a stone flattener. It's available here (in single and double-sided), where i got my waterstone kit: Sharpening Supplies - Sharpen Your Knives and Tools With The Right Supplies

They have everything else too.

Single most important thing i've come to realize, until you turn a burr-you are not there. Edges can feel sharp before you get to that point. don't buy it. Get the burr, zero magnification necessary, polish it away. Tha's the edge.

Bevels is a whole discussion in itself.

...OHMY! my high-carbon Deda came in the mail today...i gotta get some fishes.

[spopepro]

Single bevels have also changed the way I look at sharpening. I can get such an amazing edge on my deba and yanagiba I kind of end up bummed that I can't seem to be better with my double bevel knives. At first I thought that it was just a situation that the edge can be so much finer with just the single bevel, but then I picked up one of these:

...and it's amazing. So it's me, my henckels, or a combination of the two. In the mean time, I'll keep working on them. I'm putting a rule on myself that I'm not allowed to grab another knife until I'm better at making a great edge on my current german knives.

I use a DMT coarse diamond "stone" to flatten my water stones. After working for way too long flattening a couple of new stones, I should have purchased the extra coarse. Even thought it takes a while, it's leaves a really nice surface.

As another note that has made my sharpening life better--turns out the "large" size water stones (nominally 8x3 inches) fit perfectly in a 1/2 width food tray (you know, the kind that fit in the refrigerated cases on the line? what are they called?). I got a 4 inch deep tray, and if you have the common rubber stone holder you can keep your stones in water in the tray, put the stone you're using in the rubber above it, and it will sit nicely on the edges of the tray, making more water handy and cleanup super easy.