If you want to dump Trump....

[bigbill]

Vindeman will be told to retire and will land in some consultant role for companies doing business in Ukraine.

[lumpy]

Vindeman will be told to retire and will land in some consultant role for companies doing business in Ukraine.

You would hope the Pentagon has his back, especially after being called "fools and babies."

[bigbill]

You would hope the Pentagon has his back, especially after being called "fools and babies."

Has his back how? Civilian leadership of the military. Officers swear to obey the orders of the President. Despite what Trump said, I don't think he'll be missed.

[Blue Jays]

Lieutenant Colonel Vindeman shared he has multiple offers for high-ranking roles in the Ukrainian government.
He will get comfortable new employment there and will likely prefer his new Ukraine gig.

[guido]

snip... I don't think he'll be missed.

This is not an administration that respects actual patriotism. Or sacrifice for one's country.

[lumpy]

Has his back how? Civilian leadership of the military. Officers swear to obey the orders of the President. Despite what Trump said, I don't think he'll be missed.

I just mean hiding him in the Pentagon until he's ready to move on.

[guido]

Of course expertise in the for soviet republics wasn't needed any more, Vladimir tells Trump all he needs to know...

[Too Tall]

Yes, everyone saw it coming, hence not being surprised. It'll be interesting to see it play out.

I got this. Buy Ticonderoga Pencil Stock, it's going to be a long list.

[bigbill]

This is not an administration that respects actual patriotism. Or sacrifice for one's country.

In what way was he patriotic? What did he sacrifice for his country? He was a suit in the NSC, he put on a uniform to testify. His expertise was in Ukrainian affairs and he listened in on a phone call between the two countries. He didn't like what he heard so he became an informant to the Democrats seeking dirt on Trump. Anyone with a high security clearance is exposed at some point to something they might find distasteful or shady. I used to do submarine missions that involved intelligence gathering, was I always comfortable with our mission, nope, but it was my job. What was proven concerning Trump and Ukraine? Vindeman's testimony proved nothing. Trump was charged with abuse of power and obstructing congress, neither were impeachable offenses. It was all a political game.

I don't like many things that Trump does, I feel fortunate that I was retired from the military before he was elected, but the actions of Congress over the last two-plus years is shameful. Maybe the next Congress will do the will of the people.

[Toddykins]

...What was proven concerning Trump and Ukraine? Vindeman's testimony proved nothing. Trump was charged with abuse of power and obstructing congress, neither were impeachable offenses...

This statement is factually incorrect. Impeachable offences are whatever Congress deems them to be. You may not agree with the decision, but the historical record will show that Trump was impeached. This proves to the constitutional standard that the President abused his power and obstructed justice.

Re Vindman - being an infantry officer in Iraq with a purple heart doesn't count as service? I don't want to get into a shouting match about what qualifies as service to the country, but the after the fact character assassination of Vindman is appalling, when by any reasonable standard he dedicated much of his life to serving the US and by credible accounts has acquitted himself with honor. But hey, I guess people believe John Bolton is secretly a democrat too.

Further, the will of the people was executed - Count how many people are represented by those who voted for impeachment in both houses and compare that to those who voted against. Hint - the majority of US citizens (and voters) voted those who supported impeachment into power. We can debate whether the midterm elections were explicitly a rebuke of Trump's actions or simply the usual pattern of the incumbents faring poorly. However, the numbers are not debatable.

[guido]

Snip... but the actions of Congress over the last two-plus years is shameful. Maybe the next Congress will do the will of the people.

Toddykins set you straight on the outstanding service provided by Vindman, so I will not belabor that point.

Protecting the integrity of elections, the rule of law and the appropriate checks and balances as specified in the Constitution are among the highest responsibilities of the Congress. If only the Senate had the integrity to live up to their responsibilities we might not be in such a profound mess.

[Toddykins]

And it os worth noting that the senate is controlled by a party representing a minority of Americans.

[Sbti]

In what way was he patriotic? What did he sacrifice for his country?

What the fuck are you talking about? He's a combat veteran. One military throwing the other under the bus? Un-fucking believable. Keep supporting your Cadet Bonespurs.

[bigbill]

And it os worth noting that the senate is controlled by a party representing a minority of Americans.

How so? A Republican was elected President in 2016. Popular vote argument is moot because the Constitution requires the Electoral College and Trump spanked Hillary.

[GrantM]

How so? A Republican was elected President in 2016. Popular vote argument is moot because the Constitution requires the Electoral College and Trump spanked Hillary.

It's pretty simple, when Republican Senators start talking about their actions as "the will of the people" rather than the "will of the electoral college" they're on shaky logical foundations.

-g

[Toddykins]

Ugh - I am not debating the result of election or the system. I have never once questioned the outcome even as I find it saddening and dismaying. Republican conflation of these two issues is frankly ridiculous. Personally, I do believe the electoral college is flawed and outdated and I can't wait until the National Interstate Popular Vote Compact garners enough support to take effect.

My wording could have been more precise since the Senate is tasked with representing everyone even if they do shirk that responsibility. I was simply noting that when you say you want congress to do the will of the people, you mean you want congress to do what you want. A majority of the American voters/people did not vote Republicans into power in the Senate (or the Presidency). The preceding sentence is factual.

[ericpmoss]

This is Hilary Pizza-gate level conspiracy thinking.
They're far too incompetent to pull off what you're suggesting.
Don't mistake that for corruption.

-g

If Bernie's campaign had paid tens of thousands of $ to a company employing ex-staffers of say, Tulsi Gabbard, for an unsecured app to count the votes in an election he was in, this would (properly) be front page NYT 24 hours a day. You know that, surely.

Blackhawk County reported its totals, and the central tabulators gave hundreds of votes from Bernie's totals to Deval Patrick.
Webster Country reported large wins for Buttigieg, but in at least one caucus site in Webster, no volunteer was available, and a note was left on the door with an envelope of official paperwork for reporting totals for whoever might show up. Heavy Bernie districts got reported last, despite being some of the first to report. I watched video of Buttigieg being awarded 3 delegate equivalents via a coin toss where the guy doing it simply cheated. Buttigieg declared victory before any totals, and refused to even talk to reporters about it. CNN wouldn't even report vote totals, but only SDE totals, which have NOTHING to do with the national delegates, just to give Buttigieg a 3 day media boost as "the winner", which helped bump him up 9 points in New Hampshire.

After a $300k 'donation', the DNC changed its rules for debate participation to allow Republican Michael Bloomberg in. They wouldn't let Gravel participate even when he did qualify, and wouldn't bend for any of the candidates of color. But money opened the door because they want to get Bernie out. Obama said flat-out that if it looked like Bernie were going to win, he'd step in and "do something". So don't tell me about pizza gate.

In NO case was any 'error' in Bernie's favor. This is bullshit top to bottom. As far as "conspiracy", you make it sound like the only kind of conspiracy is a James Bond like operation. This was a conspiracy, just not well done. I'm just glad Bernie's people kept records of the local totals.

[bigbill]

It's pretty simple, when Republican Senators start talking about their actions as "the will of the people" rather than the "will of the electoral college" they're on shaky logical foundations.

-g

Not it is not that simple. The United States is a Constitutional Democracy, not a direct democracy. Representatives are elected by the people and the Senate has more Republicans than Democrats because of how people voted.

[Toddykins]

Bill - That is not what we are discussing. You were the one that chose the phrasing 'will of the people', maybe you should be more precise. Or do some people count more?

I don't want to confuse the issue - But are you going to be making the same arguments when demographics shift Arizona and Texas blue?

[bigbill]

Ugh - I am not debating the result of election or the system. I have never once questioned the outcome even as I find it saddening and dismaying. Republican conflation of these two issues is frankly ridiculous. Personally, I do believe the electoral college is flawed and outdated and I can't wait until the National Interstate Popular Vote Compact garners enough support to take effect.

My wording could have been more precise since the Senate is tasked with representing everyone even if they do shirk that responsibility. I was simply noting that when you say you want congress to do the will of the people, you mean you want congress to do what you want. A majority of the American voters/people did not vote Republicans into power in the Senate (or the Presidency). The preceding sentence is factual.

The Senate did the will of the people who voted them in. It doesn't matter what the grand total of voters did, it matters how the voters in individual states voted. I'm in the throes of my Master's in American History, what you suggest (will of the majority) is what was avoided in the forming of the US government. Each state had their say.