Carlos Ghosn

[rwsaunders]

No extradition treaty between Japan and Lebanon...dude can be tried in Lebanon if Japan presents credible evidence...like that’ll happen. I think that I would have found another spot to lay low in though. Whitey Bulger lived beachside in CA for 16 years...

Lebanon Receives Interpol Arrest Notice for Carlos Ghosn - WSJ

[j44ke]

Interpol is kind of a mess right now. See: Meng Hongwei, Alexander Prokopchuk & Kim Jong Yang.

[fastupslowdown]

Japan has a 99% conviction rate statistic. That says it all. Guilty or not they will obtain your confession by any mean.

Japan

In Japan, the criminal justice system has a conviction rate that exceeds 99%, including guilty plea cases.[8] This has been attributed to low prosecutorial budgets impelling understaffed prosecutors to bring only the most obviously guilty defendants to trial.[9] However, international NGO Human Rights Watch claims that Japan's criminal justice practices, such as interrogating suspects without counsel or charge for up to 23 days, lead to wrongful convictions.[10] -mike g

i didn't dig very deep but this is what wikipedia had to say

[Chik]

Japan has a 99% conviction rate statistic. That says it all. Guilty or not they will obtain your confession by any mean.

The prosecutor seems to have had enough time to obtain a confession, no?

The conviction rate is extremely high in Japan, and there have been some articles written about it in recent years, all more or less saying the same thing, pointing to coerced confessions being a significant contributor. This is certainly not the entire explanation (and admittedly not entirely impartial) but may provide partial explanation for the high conviction rate: my late uncle who was a prosecutor said that he hardly ever took on a case unless he felt that there was enough evidence (other than a confession) to give him confidence that he could win.

What do you think is the rate of offenders turning themselves in? I don't know what that is, but it's probably useful to strip that out in examining the underlying stats, particularly in comparison with other countries.

[Chik]

No extradition treaty between Japan and Lebanon...dude can be tried in Lebanon if Japan presents credible evidence...like that’ll happen. I think that I would have found another spot to lay low in though. Whitey Bulger lived beachside in CA for 16 years...

Lebanon Receives Interpol Arrest Notice for Carlos Ghosn - WSJ

Hiding in plain sight is usually the most effective, but it's a little difficult for good ol' Charlie to blend in anywhere in Japan. On the other hand, he probably could have done it in Beirut if he hadn't grabbed a megaphone to announce his arrival.

As for Interpol, I think their main difficulty, and correct me if I'm wrong, is that they can't actually lead investigations or arrest suspects themselves. They need to rely on local law enforcement agencies who may or may not be particularly helpful.

[Chik]

The ability of wealth to hide and move around the world never ceases to amaze me. It doesn't even require complicity, just speed and anonymity.

Depending on where it is, neither is required.

You buy a little apartment in the target country and pay for it through legitimate channels using legitimate or legitimised funds. You open accounts with the utility and phone companies for the apartment. With their invoices, you establish proof of address using standard documentary proof, which enables you to meet KYC requirements to open a normal current account with a local bank.

Then, you return to the country through a porous border with a suitcase of cash. You go to a casino and exchange all the cash for chips. You have a few drinks at the bar, maybe play a bit of roulette. You take the chips back to the cashier. The casino issues a cheque made out to you (minus a fee for the casino's troubles). You deposit your casino "winnings" in your new, local bank account. You're all set with clean funds with no paper trail in your account.

Repeat if necessary.

[sk_tle]

The prosecutor seems to have had enough time to obtain a confession, no?

The conviction rate is extremely high in Japan, and there have been some articles written about it in recent years, all more or less saying the same thing, pointing to coerced confessions being a significant contributor. This is certainly not the entire explanation (and admittedly not entirely impartial) but may provide partial explanation for the high conviction rate: my late uncle who was a prosecutor said that he hardly ever took on a case unless he felt that there was enough evidence (other than a confession) to give him confidence that he could win.

What do you think is the rate of offenders turning themselves in? I don't know what that is, but it's probably useful to strip that out in examining the underlying stats, particularly in comparison with other countries.

I'd like to find the article I read a few years ago and I don't have stats in hand but basically some petty criminal decided that once you have a criminal record, even a small one, you might be charged for anything if the prosecutor cannot find a suspect and the police and they will use any mean necessary to crush your mind until you confess out of exhaustion. They also have a very liberal use of custody length from what I understand.

In the case of Ghosn he is probably culprit of some of the things he is charged for but my wild guess is that delayed compensation scheme was tacitly and secretly approved by the government, stakeholder and executives from Nissan when he was saving the company and they just decided to use it against him now they want to remove it from the role and feel the french government has too much influence on the company.

[sk_tle]

Hiding in plain sight is usually the most effective, but it's a little difficult for good ol' Charlie to blend in anywhere in Japan. On the other hand, he probably could have done it in Beirut if he hadn't grabbed a megaphone to announce his arrival.

As for Interpol, I think their main difficulty, and correct me if I'm wrong, is that they can't actually lead investigations or arrest suspects themselves. They need to rely on local law enforcement agencies who may or may not be particularly helpful.

Interpol is not a police force, it is a shared communication channel between them.

Lebanon or France do not extradite their citizen. That doesn't mean you can't be arrested and judged for something you did abroad but the charges need to be compatible with your local laws and usually the sentence would be softer unless you did harm in the country you are being judged. Not sure if the japanese can find a way by making Nissan Lebanon filing a complaint against him but there would be probably a lot of way for Ghosn lawyers to escape the trial.

[j44ke]

Interpol has no ability to arrest people. They train police forces in investigation techniques and assist in investigations that cross international borders, but they cannot go get people and they are not, by their constitution, allowed to assist in political cases. Their "Red Letter" encourages any country to return a person Interpol officially recognizes as being a fugitive to the state where the charges originate. Recently, however, several countries - Russia and China being two big ones - have been exerting pressure on Interpol to allow the use of Red Letters for political cases where the person is charged with having used their position to embezzle funds or accept bribes or whatever. China even got their guy elected president of Interpol, but when he failed to be supportive enough of their goals, he magically disappeared only to reappear a while later in the midst of what China described as an investigation of possible corruption. Then Russian tried to get their guy elected President, but instead the US, convinced that Russia would simply use Interpol to arrest Ukrainian government officials, successfully pushed for the acting President from S. Korea to be appointed to fulfill the remainder of the missing Chinese President's term. The end result is that Interpol, rather than being purely a international coordinator of criminal investigations, has become a political tool used by governments to legitimize the forced repatriation of dissidents, enemies and critics.

So a big mess.

I doubt anyone in Lebanon would be willing to honor an Interpol Red Letter warrant for fear that it might just as easily be used against them in the future. No sense creating any precedents.

[colker]

I'd like to find the article I read a few years ago and I don't have stats in hand but basically some petty criminal decided that once you have a criminal record, even a small one, you might be charged for anything if the prosecutor cannot find a suspect and the police and they will use any mean necessary to crush your mind until you confess out of exhaustion. They also have a very liberal use of custody length from what I understand.

In the case of Ghosn he is probably culprit of some of the things he is charged for but my wild guess is that delayed compensation scheme was tacitly and secretly approved by the government, stakeholder and executives from Nissan when he was saving the company and they just decided to use it against him now they want to remove it from the role and feel the french government has too much influence on the company.

That´s also what i know of the japanese justice system. I admire a lot of the japanese culture. They have the most refined taste in the planet... but some aspects are pretty brutal.

[Chik]

Interpol has no ability to arrest people. They train police forces in investigation techniques and assist in investigations that cross international borders, but they cannot go get people and they are not, by their constitution, allowed to assist in political cases. Their "Red Letter" encourages any country to return a person Interpol officially recognizes as being a fugitive to the state where the charges originate. Recently, however, several countries - Russia and China being two big ones - have been exerting pressure on Interpol to allow the use of Red Letters for political cases where the person is charged with having used their position to embezzle funds or accept bribes or whatever. China even got their guy elected president of Interpol, but when he failed to be supportive enough of their goals, he magically disappeared only to reappear a while later in the midst of what China described as an investigation of possible corruption. Then Russian tried to get their guy elected President, but instead the US, convinced that Russia would simply use Interpol to arrest Ukrainian government officials, successfully pushed for the acting President from S. Korea to be appointed to fulfill the remainder of the missing Chinese President's term. The end result is that Interpol, rather than being purely a international coordinator of criminal investigations, has become a political tool used by governments to legitimize the forced repatriation of dissidents, enemies and critics.

So a big mess.

I doubt anyone in Lebanon would be willing to honor an Interpol Red Letter warrant for fear that it might just as easily be used against them in the future. No sense creating any precedents.

Also, I wonder if there is anything in Lebanese law about prosecuting crimes of this nature that was committed ex juris. If not, the Red Letter is practically meaningless other than being an instrument to make a political point.

[Lionel]

Depending on where it is, neither is required.

You buy a little apartment in the target country and pay for it through legitimate channels using legitimate or legitimised funds. You open accounts with the utility and phone companies for the apartment. With their invoices, you establish proof of address using standard documentary proof, which enables you to meet KYC requirements to open a normal current account with a local bank.

Then, you return to the country through a porous border with a suitcase of cash. You go to a casino and exchange all the cash for chips. You have a few drinks at the bar, maybe play a bit of roulette. You take the chips back to the cashier. The casino issues a cheque made out to you (minus a fee for the casino's troubles). You deposit your casino "winnings" in your new, local bank account. You're all set with clean funds with no paper trail in your account.

Repeat if necessary.

Thanks for the tip !

[Jamie Medeiros]

Guilty or not after reading this article if I had the money I would have run to.

Carlos Ghosn and Japan's 'hostage justice' system - BBC News

[snotrockets]

Then, you return to the country through a porous border with a suitcase of cash. You go to a casino and exchange all the cash for chips. You have a few drinks at the bar, maybe play a bit of roulette. You take the chips back to the cashier. The casino issues a cheque made out to you (minus a fee for the casino's troubles). You deposit your casino "winnings" in your new, local bank account. You're all set with clean funds with no paper trail in your account.

Not that easy anymore – due to government pressure, most (all?) Casinos stopped accepting more than a few thousand $s in cash. But there's always a way to launder cash, if you can afford it: an account with a friendly bank in Cyprus, a loan with Deutsche… If you can afford the cost, you'd find a solution.

[colker]

Not that easy anymore – due to government pressure, most (all?) Casinos stopped accepting more than a few thousand $s in cash. But there's always a way to launder cash, if you can afford it: an account with a friendly bank in Cyprus, a loan with Deutsche… If you can afford the cost, you'd find a solution.

I would suggest hiring lawyers and professional money launderers if anyone wants to go that route. It´s not exactly a learn on the internet diy kind of thing.

[snotrockets]

I would suggest hiring lawyers and professional money launderers if anyone wants to go that route. It´s not exactly a learn on the internet diy kind of thing.

If you have enough money such that you'd need their services, I'm certain you wouldn't have to search for them, on or off the internets.

[colker]

If you have enough money such that you'd need their services, I'm certain you wouldn't have to search for them, on or off the internets.

If your plan is to follow the instructions posted here then there is enough money and needs "assistance". You don´t want to slip on any detail.

[rwsaunders]

Pretty in-depth story that outlines the people and tactics used to get Ghosn out of Japan.

Carlos Ghosn: How Nissan's Former Leader Became a Fugitive - Bloomberg

[Colinmclelland]

Not that easy anymore – due to government pressure, most (all?) Casinos stopped accepting more than a few thousand $s in cash. But there's always a way to launder cash, if you can afford it: an account with a friendly bank in Cyprus, a loan with Deutsche… If you can afford the cost, you'd find a solution.

I've heard $3k used cars are the way to go now. But even that pathway is closely watched so sometimes the deal gets abandoned at the last minute:)

[Chik]

Not that easy anymore – due to government pressure, most (all?) Casinos stopped accepting more than a few thousand $s in cash. But there's always a way to launder cash, if you can afford it: an account with a friendly bank in Cyprus, a loan with Deutsche… If you can afford the cost, you'd find a solution.

Note my opening qualifier: "Depending on where it is".

Just to clarify, in most cases, in most countries, the AML restriction is not about accepting cash above a certain amount, but about having to report to the relevant authority the KYC details of the payor if a cash payment, or a series of cash payments, exceeds the threshold. However, it's possible that some establishments may reject high cash payments because they can't be arsed to do the paperwork. And, obviously, you wouldn't be walking into a casino or whatever that's not accustomed to the routine. In most likelihood, you'll need an introduction by a facilitator.