Dog attack. What would you do now?

[David Tollefson]

We had a pit mix (with aussie cattle dog) for a while. Very smart dog, though a little high-strung when it came to thunder storms and fireworks. Had some leash aggression issues when it came to other dogs (not humans), and in the off-leash park tended to be the enforcer of order (never aggressively, just ran interference every time another dog barked or growled).

It did have a couple of issues with the cats, in a "you've invaded my personal space" sense, but it was just a quick growl and done. But when he did it the second time to my young daughter (now 4 -- she wasn't always gentle about petting the dogs), it was time to get him into a home without young children.

[jclay]

i don't think it was clear if the dogs were aggressive or playful. was there growling and snarling, teeth showing, hair raised on their backs and tails up? or were they just bouncing around happy to see some people and hoping to play with a dog?

either way (and i guess more so if they were aggressive) the lady called the dogs and they went right back into the yard?

anyways, yeah, i'm super annoyed with anyone that has their dogs off leash anywhere in public.

Aggressive as in charging us rapidly, fangs exposed, hackles up all the way down the back, tails straight back.

Whether or not they responded to their owner is wholly irrelevant, but movement back to the yard wasn't quick or certain or even entirely complete.

It's real simple: Some dogs are far to capable of massive, quick damage, and once engaged are completely determined, to be allowed.

[dgaddis]

If you'd had a pistol you could have shot the damn dog. ;-)

I'm a on the fence on the issue of banning pits. The statistics don't look good for them, they make up a whole lot of the dog related deaths despite being a very small portion of the dogs. Is it because they're just super aggressive dogs, or because the average pit owner is a worse owner than the average, say, golden retriever owner? Kinda like black people commit a disproportionate amount of homicide relative to their population size (not as disproportionate as pits tho) - I don't think it's because black people are just inherently more violent than white people.

I just think we have to be careful with banning things we don't like. Pit bulls killed 29 people in the US last year (74% of dog bite related deaths, despite being only ~6% of the dog population according to this anti-pit bull site, like I said, doesn't look good numbers wise). 838 people died in bicycle accidents. Seems to me that bicycles are way more dangerous.

I'd bet my life savings that if tomorrow there was a vote to outlaw riding bicycles on roads with speed limits above 25mph it would pass with overwhelming support.

[doomridesout]

You guys are really bumming me out about my extremely sweet pit bull.

[ericpmoss]

Apples to oranges, though -- tens of millions of bicyclists, mostly being hit by inattentive drivers, vs. a much smaller number of pit bulls. An inattentive rider may kill himself, but an unattended pit bull can decide to jump a fence and kill the kid across the street. There are nice pit bulls, of course, but FFS with all the types of shelter dogs out there that don't have a history of mauling people and pets, spay and neuter the biggest threats out of existence.

[Cookietruck]

just like i don't think an all out ban on guns solves that problem, a ban on "pitbulls" wouldn't solve any problems either. there are plenty of other large breeds that can do as much or more damage. at one point weren't rottweilers the big bad dogs? then Dobermanns...were German Shepherds at one point also?

i think this link takes a better look at the problem than that dogsbite website (it kinda reads like propaganda with all the links all over the place and some obvious falsehoods stated).
https://www.nationalcanineresearchco...000-2015_0.pdf

here is their website.
Experts | National Canine Research Council

[jclay]

If you'd had a pistol you could have shot the damn dog. ;-)

That fact has crossed my mind.

838 people died in bicycle accidents. Seems to me that bicycles are way more dangerous.

Since I know you're far too smart to mean that, I'll offer this to the others: We choose to take the bicycle risk (or not). I don't choose to be attacked by dogs. And drivers that kill cyclists are getting away with murder.

To everyone, I'm sorry; I get loving your dog regardless of breed/mix. I love our 11# terrier mix. At the same time I think it's entirely reasonable to prohibit certain types that are particularly capable in the destruction department, and breed/select them out of the general population as humanely as possible. And sure, it's a judgement call as to where you draw the line. But using that argument to impeach the notion that certain domestic animals are capable of extraordinary injury and should not be in the general population? That doesn't hold water with me.

[dgaddis]

We choose to take the bicycle risk (or not).

A co-worker of mine says the same thing about his choice to not wear a seat belt, and he's not wrong (tho he is stupid IMO). Despite that, the law has decided that's not a choice you and I get to make because it's too dangerous for us and the costs to society are too high. Same with helmet laws on motorcycles.

Rules are weird. I'm very much in favor of people making their own choices so long as it doesn't impact other people in a negative way. But I'm also in favor of laws that just seem like common damn sense (like seat belt and helmet laws). When it gets weird is when someone else's view on common sense doesn't align with mine (like riding a bicycle on the road with cars).

[dgaddis]

We choose to take the bicycle risk (or not).

A co-worker of mine says the same thing about his choice to not wear a seat belt, and he's not wrong (tho he is stupid IMO). Despite that, the law has decided that's not a choice you and I get to make because it's too dangerous for us and the costs to society are too high. Same with helmet laws on motorcycles.

Rules are weird. I'm very much in favor of people making their own choices so long as it doesn't impact other people in a negative way. But I'm also in favor of laws that just seem like common damn sense (like seat belt and helmet laws). When it gets weird is when someone else's view on common sense doesn't align with mine, like riding a bicycle on the road with cars. Most people think we're crazy for doing it.

[Cookietruck]

At the same time I think it's entirely reasonable to prohibit certain types that are particularly capable in the destruction department, and breed/select them out of the general population as humanely as possible. And sure, it's a judgement call as to where you draw the line. But using that argument to impeach the notion that certain domestic animals are capable of extraordinary injury and should not be in the general population? That doesn't hold water with me.

Perhaps that is already happening?
I think that many shelters euthanize a very large majority of "pitbulls", and many other shelters do a more thorough evaluation and euthanize the dogs that are aggressive. There are also "no-kill" shelters, like here, and a truly aggressive dog won't be adopted to anyone except a trainer for them to personally care for...

Every professional trainer I've ever talked to has had the same opinion about the bully breeds. No more dangerous than any other breed of their size. I trust the professionals.

Does anyone know what happened with Michael Vick's dogs? I seem to remember people being surprised about all the dogs from that fighting operation...this is a read that will cheer you up.
What happened to Michael Vick'''s dogs ... | SI.com

[j44ke]

If a dog loose on the street threatens you, file a complaint with animal control. The owner may have a whole list of reasons why you shouldn't be bothered by their dog, but their responsibility is to make sure that their dog doesn't bother you. It is a pretty simple job really, and the law backs you up on this. America land of the free dogs being dogs he's a family pet wouldn't hurt a fly etc. Great. Now obey the law and put your dog on a line or fence him in so he can't get out. Simple.

I know from working in animal control that owners with problem dogs very often have a lot of problems in general and there are a lot of things that should be simple and just aren't for them. Legal problems, financial problems, etc. And what often happens is there is a trail of near misses until bang, the dog injures someone seriously. A lot of tears, people get mad, but the opportunity for them to solve the issue has passed and now the judge makes everything really simple again.

[monadnocky]

I am a dog owner and a dog lover. And I think 95% of dog owners are complete morons. There. I said it.

Case in point: my wife and I were walking our (leashed) dog in a local park. Golden mix (off leash, of course) exuberantly charges us, I didn't detect any real aggression but it surprised us nonetheless. Our dog (a standard longhaired dachshund) begins to aggressively bark at the dog, clearly freaked out that a large breed just crashed through the woods and surprised the hell out of us.

About a minute later the owner of the dog finally catches up on the trail, and yells at us for allowing our dog to scare her dog.

Stuff like this is typical in my experience.

Morons.

[GeneK]

If you'd had a pistol you could have shot the damn dog. ;-)

I'm a on the fence on the issue of banning pits. The statistics don't look good for them, they make up a whole lot of the dog related deaths despite being a very small portion of the dogs. Is it because they're just super aggressive dogs, or because the average pit owner is a worse owner than the average, say, golden retriever owner? Kinda like black people commit a disproportionate amount of homicide relative to their population size (not as disproportionate as pits tho) - I don't think it's because black people are just inherently more violent than white people.

I just think we have to be careful with banning things we don't like. Pit bulls killed 29 people in the US last year (74% of dog bite related deaths, despite being only ~6% of the dog population according to this anti-pit bull site, like I said, doesn't look good numbers wise). 838 people died in bicycle accidents. Seems to me that bicycles are way more dangerous.

I'd bet my life savings that if tomorrow there was a vote to outlaw riding bicycles on roads with speed limits above 25mph it would pass with overwhelming support.

You are talking about mortality statistics here. I’m not necessarily thinking not about death by rather the permanent physical (and no doubt psychological) aftereffects that arise from these attacks. One patient I could never forget, a little girl whose family pit bull shredded her forearm taking out most of the tendons and major nerve trunks. Her hand was salvaged eventually but would never be functional. She’s a young woman now, getting by I suppose with the use of one hand.

[doomridesout]

If a dog loose on the street threatens you, file a complaint with animal control. The owner may have a whole list of reasons why you shouldn't be bothered by their dog, but their responsibility is to make sure that their dog doesn't bother you. It is a pretty simple job really, and the law backs you up on this. America land of the free dogs being dogs he's a family pet wouldn't hurt a fly etc. Great. Now obey the law and put your dog on a line or fence him in so he can't get out. Simple.

I know from working in animal control that owners with problem dogs very often have a lot of problems in general and there are a lot of things that should be simple and just aren't for them. Legal problems, financial problems, etc. And what often happens is there is a trail of near misses until bang, the dog injures someone seriously. A lot of tears, people get mad, but the opportunity for them to solve the issue has passed and now the judge makes everything really simple again.

Agreed- bully breeds, sadly, are popular among a segment of the population who tend to behave negligently with a whole host of inherently dangerous things. This adds a lot of signal noise to the question of whether bully breeds are inherently more dangerous than other dogs. The question is how many injuries are caused by the dogs being negligently supervised or controlled versus the dogs biting even when reasonable care is taken- and there's very scant information in the public about that. I shudder to think about it, in fact, because I'm an owner of a bully breed who has never shown any dangerous propensities, I take reasonable care with him, but "who knows what lurks in the hearts of men (dogs)".

[jclay]

If a dog loose on the street threatens you, file a complaint with animal control.

Done by 8:15 this morning. I'll follow up on Friday with Animal Control.

I've had to do this three or four times in 20 years. People have been attacked, threatened, a little girl cornered, dogs being walked getting attacked and not once has the owner taken the necessary steps until Animal Control got involved. Starting with the last incident maybe five years ago, SOP is that Animal Control gets called after the first incident, regardless. No more waiting to see if they do the right thing. It just gets old.

And a 16", soon to be extremely sharp machete, is now standard carry.

[Peter Polack]

Done by 8:15 this morning. I'll follow up on Friday with Animal Control.

And a 16", soon to be extremely sharp machete, is now standard carry.

Keep us informed as to any response from Animal Control/action taken, as well as comments from the neighbor.

When I perform my trail maintenance activities (see my blog below) I'm amazed at the number of people walking their dogs off-leash on the trails. In addition to unpredictable behavior toward people, dogs may encounter other unleashed dogs on the trails with similar unpredictable results.

FYI: You might want to check whether your machete is legal to carry. There may be limitations, and you may want to consider something else that is legal and less obtrusive such as the aforementioned bear spray.

[cny rider]

The machete is a little melodramatic don't you think?
You live in Florida! Aren't you allowed to shoot anyone or anything you want?
Carry a .357 on your next walk.

[cny rider]

The machete is a little melodramatic don't you think?
You live in Florida! Aren't you allowed to shoot anyone or anything you want?
Carry a .357 on your next walk.

[sk_tle]

As someone who wouldn't want a dog and has plainly hated dog for years*, I still think Dustin has some very good points. Banning pits wouldn't really help as bad owners would just seek for other breeds and would raise them the same way. Not sure what are the actual laws in the US but around here dog owners needs to have a permit and pass some mandatory courses before and after the dog adoption. I believe any owner with an aggresively acting dog quickly raise suspicions and is denounced. I think it limits a lot the issues and created a new economy of dog owner training. Sure the added cost for the dog owner can be seen as an additionnal tax but at some point it having to pay to have a dog also add a sense of responsibility to it. I'm pretty sure most homeless punks do not have a permit but although their dogs spend their whole days unleashed they are usually the less aggressive dogs you can find. Most are their sole and only thrustworthy companion and thus get raised with a lot of love and attention so they may just get a pass by the law enforcement unless they do something stupid.

* Being caught in the middle of a dog fight at 3 or 4y old didn't helped, nor being chased by dogs every time I cycled past a farm in rural France when I was a kid/teenager. I've now come to the conclusion these dogs had been raised to be aggressive against strangers as I haven't being subject of being chased anymore since I reached adulthood and moved to a part of the world with more educated/regulated dog owners.

[vertical_doug]

If you'd had a pistol you could have shot the damn dog. ;-)

I'm a on the fence on the issue of banning pits. The statistics don't look good for them, they make up a whole lot of the dog related deaths despite being a very small portion of the dogs. Is it because they're just super aggressive dogs, or because the average pit owner is a worse owner than the average, say, golden retriever owner? Kinda like black people commit a disproportionate amount of homicide relative to their population size (not as disproportionate as pits tho) - I don't think it's because black people are just inherently more violent than white people.

I just think we have to be careful with banning things we don't like. Pit bulls killed 29 people in the US last year (74% of dog bite related deaths, despite being only ~6% of the dog population according to this anti-pit bull site, like I said, doesn't look good numbers wise). 838 people died in bicycle accidents. Seems to me that bicycles are way more dangerous.

I'd bet my life savings that if tomorrow there was a vote to outlaw riding bicycles on roads with speed limits above 25mph it would pass with overwhelming support.

Atlanta Series 1 Episode 5 when Darius goes to the gun range to practice shooting he brings a dog target.

Two people standing next to him shooting at targets with humans on them ask ' What's wrong with you? You can't be shooting at a dog target. What if my young son is in here and sees you? That's just wrong.'

Darius says 'In my neighborhood, dogs are nasty that bite people'.

Then the gun range owner tells him to leave the range for causing trouble.

If you never seen Atlanta, at least watch this episode. Pretty harsh commentary on America

BTW, more people die walking. Trip, fall, slip all sorts of little things. Heck, 4500 died last year just walking across the street. The smart phone which distracts you is the most lethal thing you own.