Any Insight on VW Sportswagon Turbo Diesel 2013

[pdxmech13]

[QUOTE= In order to make up the difference in cost you should be driving 15-20k a year..[/QUOTE]

Can someone explain this to me? Mileage is mileage so saving dollars is the same...no?

Nick

[jmgorman]

The TDI is considerably more expensive than the gassers. Throw in the fact that diesel is more expensive than gas, recouping the cost means you have to drive a lot.

I don't drive mine that much every year, but I appreciate being able to use less fuel doing so (plus, that torque!)

[SteveP]

SteveP I think that timing chains are a thing of the past.

my current camry and corolla have chains.

you will like the vw though.... lot of torque for sure.

[cody.wms]

Can someone explain this to me? Mileage is mileage so saving dollars is the same...no?

Nick

The big difference is just the cost out of the door. The base diesel, at sticker price, costs $7445 more than the base gas version. It looks like the SE and diesel versions are kinda compatible, which means the real difference is around $4000 for the diesel. BUT keep in mind that at the diesel values hold their value more than the gas versions. On Edmunds, the 2011 wagons have a difference of around $4500 in estimated value, and 2009 sedans (no wagons that year) have a difference of 4K a year. There are tax differences (for a VA resident, around an extra $130 a year) and cost differences if you finance and pay >0% a year or differences if you put the 4K in a vanguard fund or whatever instead of in the car. And the fact that I _think_ it is harder to get a deal on a new diesel than a new gas version due to demand.There may be maintenance cost differences but I don't know enough about these Jetta to tell you that. But here is some simple math using EPA estimates (which seem conservative from what I see scanning fuelly.com):

GAS: 34 MPG =10.3 cents/mile at $3.51 a gallon (current local low for me)
DIESEL: 42 MPG = 8.9 cents/mile at $3.74 (current local low for me)

6K miles a year:
GAS = $620
DIESEL=$534

12K a year:
GAS = $1239
DIESEL=$1068

20K a year:
GAS = $2060
DIESEL=$1780

30K a year:
GAS = $3090
DIESEL=$2670

To recoup that $4K at these gas prices, you'll have to drive over 280K miles to make up the difference, but that is overly simplistic to think of it that way. The entry costs are high, gas milage increases aren't linear (10MPG to 11MPG is 10% increase, 34 to 35 is a 2.8% increase) and the gas milage for both are pretty good. The difference in fuel costs may be more stark in reality, I'd be the diesel would be much better loaded down on the highway than the gas model. The delta between diesel and gas could be much less, and the diesel maintenance costs could be much lower (no idea) or have better longevity (possible) or better resale value (certainly over the short term).

[pdxmech13]

Hi Cody,

Thanks for the info as a lot of that makes sense. I think one thing to put into these equations is the cost of Premium vs Diesel.
I'm currently driving the 1.8T and it is recommended to use premium gas for the turbo which is more expensive here in Portland than diesel.

I will say that west coasters have it pretty good right now for diesels as the major VW dealers around here are predominantly only selling the tdi's and seeing as though they are getting a big change next year the prices are starting to drop.
I think I will be holding out for 2 more years and get the 2016 Golf Variant tdi :)

[cody.wms]

Hi Cody,

Thanks for the info as a lot of that makes sense. I think one thing to put into these equations is the cost of Premium vs Diesel.
I'm currently driving the 1.8T and it is recommended to use premium gas for the turbo which is more expensive here in Portland than diesel.

I will say that west coasters have it pretty good right now for diesels as the major VW dealers around here are predominantly only selling the tdi's and seeing as though they are getting a big change next year the prices are starting to drop.
I think I will be holding out for 2 more years and get the 2016 Golf Variant tdi :)

No problem!

I think lots of the car buying math is regional, so it is worth everyone running their own numbers. In VA, that 3% annual car tax can be a killer over time. When I got my Impreza, I was thinking of getting either it or a WRX, and the cost difference over 5 years was around $10K (with premium gas, difference in milage, insurance, taxes, etc.) MUCH larger than the $4K difference in out the door price.

[Crashburn]

Cody does a great job of laying out the diesel vs. gas math and one other point to consider is normal maintenance of a diesel is more expensive than a gasser. It's not a back breaker but there is a fuel filter that is replaced every 20K and I think there is another big service, read EXPENSIVE, exclusive to TDIs at 80 or 100K. I could be thinking about DSG service every 40K that you obviously wouldn't need since you want a manual.

[SteveP]

that service is the timing belt ... which in my jetta cost me about 1,000...
which is a lot of gas... at 62,000 miles... and again at 124,000...

im still pissed.

[ned]

The gasoline engine in my Sportwagon has a timing chain.

[MarkC]

Just gonna do some zombie thread resurrection here....

Driving a 2010 Golf hatch, gas motor, 5 speed, 110K miles. Thinking about a new car. I'd like a sporty wagon but choices seem low. Also looked (from a distance) at Subie Crosstrek and BMW X1. For contrast, we have a Mazda 3 five door and it is comfy, great MPG, good room for bike races, not very exciting to drive (it is practical but has zero zoom zoom)

Criteria:

Hatch or wagon - room for bike race crap, wife's camera bag and overnight clothes.

Good highway ride (70 mile r/t each day for me and daily driver)

Decent MPG

Enough ooomph to be somewhat entertaining for on and off ramps.

Prefer manual transmission but OK with auto

35-40K and CPO is fine with low miles.


GO!!!

[Brandon White]

This describes my 2011 BMW 328i Wagon w/ M-Sport that I bought 18 months ago with 19K miles, CPO, and was around $35K.

[MarkC]

Agree Brandon - Tnx. I keep coming back to the 3 series wagon. Seem rare as hen's teeth. I looked around, albeit not seriously, a buddy looked hard and found one.

I don't need the M parts so started thinking about the X1 as a possible substitute.

[caleb]

I don't think a Sportwagen is in the same league as something like a BMW 328 at all.

I've had a 2013 Sportwagen gasser for fifteen or eighteen months. It's a fine car with a bunch of torque that gets okay mileage, but it's not exactly a plush highway ride. More of a grocery getter than something you want to cruise down the freeway in for hours a day. That said, they're relatively inexpensive, and you could get a lightly used one for less than half of your budget.

If I had it to do over again, I'd consider the new A4 wagon. Maintenance is similar to the Sportwagen, but the human interface with the car is a lot more comfortable.

[AngryScientist]

Not to dredge the obvious, but Mark - you are aware of the current VW dieselgate situation right now correct? As far as i know VW and the US EPA, etc still have no clear direction or resolution to the us tdi situation. unless you get a smokin deal on a tdi right now, i dont think i would consider buying one right now, until a resolution is clear. the decrease in performance, or other implications, coupled with the potential recall inconvenience, along with potential hassle with registering the car once a fix is announced would have me steered clear of buying a tdi currently.

given enough experience at this point, i would also not touch a 2.0T audi/VW based vehicle either, if the eye is toward long term ownership.

look for a used bimmer, yes.

[MarkC]

Sorry for confusion - I'm not looking at a VW diesel. Although I took a peek at the new golf. But not really interested in another VW.

Thought tacking onto this discussion might be a good spot for extending the conversation around wagons. And since the USA hates wagons, crossovers that could substitute for wagons. Perhaps a false assumption that folks who would consider the old Passat wagen would have insight into alternatives.

I could start a new thread and perhaps the question is: If not the 328 wagon what else competes in that space? I've come to the Crosstrak or the X1 in my looking but figured I'd crowdsource to my VS pals.

Tnx

MC

[AngryScientist]

Sorry for confusion - I'm not looking at a VW diesel. Although I took a peek at the new golf. But not really interested in another VW.

Thought tacking onto this discussion might be a good spot for extending the conversation around wagons. And since the USA hates wagons, crossovers that could substitute for wagons. Perhaps a false assumption that folks who would consider the old Passat wagen would have insight into alternatives.

I could start a new thread and perhaps the question is: If not the 328 wagon what else competes in that space? I've come to the Crosstrak or the X1 in my looking but figured I'd crowdsource to my VS pals.

Tnx

MC

fairly lengthy discussion at the Paceline forum, but anyway - there is this, recently announced:

2017 Volvo V90: This Is It

[caleb]

That V90 looks amazing.

Mark, you might also want to look at the Acura TSX wagon.

[Brandon White]

That V90 looks amazing.

Mark, you might also want to look at the Acura TSX wagon.

The TSX was discontinued in 2014? When I was looking, I had found year old TSX's under 18K miles under $30K if I recall correctly. It was in the top 3 - but the BMW happened to be around the corner and exactly what I wanted.


And yes, that V90 - I have to check that out.

[AngryScientist]

In reality, the V90 is way nicer than anything i would consider for myself, but it certainly has appeal.

i want 4 wheels, tight euro suspension, rwd and a manual transmission. dont care for much on top of that, but the market has spoken, and it does not agree with me.

[Matthew Strongin]

In reality, the V90 is way nicer than anything i would consider for myself, but it certainly has appeal.

i want 4 wheels, tight euro suspension, rwd and a manual transmission. dont care for much on top of that, but the market has spoken, and it does not agree with me.

Too bad because I completely agree with you.