So it's jobs they want eh?

[lukasz]

Except these aren't Christians. The want to create some hybrid politico-religious gov't based on local African mysticism and the laws like the 10 commandments. A bad group of people battling another bad group of people.

Dude, that exactly 100% describes ISIS. Just replace "Christians" with "Muslims."

I read just about every linked article in this thread, from start to finish.

ISIS does indeed want those two cities. How could a caliphate NOT want the two most holy cities of Islam? Jerusalem is high on that list as well. You have seen the 5 year plan, haven't you?

Mecca and Medina are main ISIS target, says Hassan Nasrallah - Iraqi News

See the Terrifying ISIS Map Showing Its 5-Year Expansion Plan - ABC News

Yeah this guy, whoever he is, also said in the article that you linked to:

Nasrallah said in a speech in the anniversary of the ‘Martyrs Leaders’ reported by IraqiNews.com, “The whole world acknowledged that ISIS has become a threat to the security of the region and the world. It is only Israel that does not consider it a threat,” pointing out that, “ISIS and other terrorist organizations do whatever serves the power of Israel and United States.”

Totally a reliable source of information.

PS since I actually check who is writing things before I read them and was puzzled as to why the link in the first post had no author (surely MSN is not creating original content), the original article was published in the Atlantic: http://www.theatlantic.com/features/...-wants/384980/

[ryker]

Personally I thought the Atlantic article was a little weak. Seemed to have conclusions that it set out to illustrate, ignoring other possible or even more credible points of view.

https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2...lam-says-isis/

[Will Neide]

Dude, that exactly 100% describes ISIS. Just replace "Christians" with "Muslims."

Except ISIS is actually trying to follow the Koran to the very last word, and the "christians" in that link are not at all trying to follow the bible. Did you do any research on the "Lord's Army" and Kony? They pretty much want to infuse the 10 commandments....which are kind of like universal truths.. (don't steal, don't murder, yadda, yadda) and infuse it with the local African mysticism.

Yeah this guy, whoever he is, also said in the article that you linked to:



Totally a reliable source of information.

PS since I actually check who is writing things before I read them and was puzzled as to why the link in the first post had no author (surely MSN is not creating original content), the original article was published in the Atlantic: What ISIS Really Wants - The Atlantic

Not sure where you are going with this. I agree, the guy is a little nutty. The whole idea seems nutty. I just grabbed a link to show ISIS has intentions of going after Mecca and Medina.

Is the BBC a better source?
BBC News - Islamic State sets sights on Saudi Arabia

I would think this would be a well established fact, especially since ISIS said it.

We can keep putting names to the groups and claiming that group is the enemy, but there is a common denominator here.

[chasea]

Oh, cool. This is like if they had the Internet during the Crusades.

[Will Neide]

[ZenNMotion]

Unless you happen to live in Pakistan, Iraq, Syria, Saudi Arabia, etc and happen to be a woman, gay, child born out of wedlock, or a non-believer.

Because then Islam is your enemy. Gays are jailed or stoned. Rape victims punished. Rampant infanticide in Pakistan. Women not allowed to travel without being accompanied by a male family member.

I find it easy to criticize a religion that inspires such things. I'm shocked that most can't.

"Gays are jailed or stoned." Current sanctioned law in Uganda- by those professing christianity, openly supported in advocacy and funding by American extremist fundamentalists

"Rampant infanticide in Pakistan"- Substitute Rwanda in the 90s, supported by catholic officials

Not to mention our own, murican brand of ISIS, the KKK, who certainly looked to their brand of christian beliefs to inspire and justify their atrocities. I'm tempted to link to photographs that can be easily searched online showing the strange fruit of charred hanging bodies surrounded by laughing white men, but I would like to sleep tonight. It went on for many decades, much longer than the (so far) history of Al Qaeda or ISIS, and it claimed thousands of victims, and some would argue that it's still not completely over. My point being that it's a senseless argument to attempt to compare which brand of theism is responsible for violence and atrocity. Islam is not the enemy. Islam is only a (or many versions of) a belief system. We need to stop trying to reduce an extremely complex situation into our own neat little boxes of pre-determined ideas based on limited information presented largely by media sources with flawed agenda.

[bcm119]

Unless you happen to live in Pakistan, Iraq, Syria, Saudi Arabia, etc and happen to be a woman, gay, child born out of wedlock, or a non-believer.

Because then Islam is your enemy. Gays are jailed or stoned. Rape victims punished. Rampant infanticide in Pakistan. Women not allowed to travel without being accompanied by a male family member.

I find it easy to criticize a religion that inspires such things. I'm shocked that most can't.

I find myself agreeing with this... but I'm an atheist and equal opportunity criticizer of all religions, although Islam seems a bit more 'stone age' than most to me. Maybe it's just that Islam takes a harder line on doing the cafeteria thing like many christians; it seems to be, by definition, more of an all or nothing deal. It all just seems totally nuts to me and I'd rather figure out how to stop it than argue semantics of who apologizes for who.

[ron l edmiston]

-- very different to spill blood and take blood relevant to spilling and taking by proxy..

ronnie

[ZenNMotion]

Focus on Islam as the "enemy" is a fool's mission. Because Islam is a belief system like any other theism. You will never "defeat" a belief system- it's been tried many times through history- crusades, missionaries, communism... how do do propose to obliterate a religion- especially one professed by a quarter of the world's population? As the OP's article proposes, we can use nuanced knowledge of how ISIS uses a rigid and strident interpretation of Islamic texts to justify their violence as a means to understand how to contain them or reduce their virulence. The enemy is ISIS, a group of people, not Islam, a belief system. To say that Islam is the enemy makes no sense.

[Will Neide]

Not to mention our own, murican brand of ISIS, the KKK, who certainly looked to their brand of christian beliefs to inspire and justify their atrocities. I'm tempted to link to photographs that can be easily searched online showing the strange fruit of charred hanging bodies surrounded by laughing white men, but I would like to sleep tonight. It went on for many decades, much longer than the (so far) history of Al Qaeda or ISIS, and it claimed thousands of victims, and some would argue that it's still not completely over. My point being that it's a senseless argument to attempt to compare which brand of theism is responsible for violence and atrocity. Islam is not the enemy. Islam is only a (or many versions of) a belief system. We need to stop trying to reduce an extremely complex situation into our own neat little boxes of pre-determined ideas based on limited information presented largely by media sources with flawed agenda.

ISIS parallels Nazi's more than any other group.

[Dallas Tex]

"Gays are jailed or stoned." Current sanctioned law in Uganda- by those professing christianity, openly supported in advocacy and funding by American extremist fundamentalists

"Rampant infanticide in Pakistan"- Substitute Rwanda in the 90s, supported by catholic officials

Not to mention our own, murican brand of ISIS, the KKK, who certainly looked to their brand of christian beliefs to inspire and justify their atrocities. I'm tempted to link to photographs that can be easily searched online showing the strange fruit of charred hanging bodies surrounded by laughing white men, but I would like to sleep tonight. It went on for many decades, much longer than the (so far) history of Al Qaeda or ISIS, and it claimed thousands of victims, and some would argue that it's still not completely over. My point being that it's a senseless argument to attempt to compare which brand of theism is responsible for violence and atrocity. Islam is not the enemy. Islam is only a (or many versions of) a belief system. We need to stop trying to reduce an extremely complex situation into our own neat little boxes of pre-determined ideas based on limited information presented largely by media sources with flawed agenda.

You are incorrect.

[joosttx]

I believe religious extremism is the enemy.

[Loki]

I believe religious extremism is the enemy.

But if you believe the text , it is not extremism, it's what's required to participate.

[ZenNMotion]

You are incorrect.

Which part do you want to not include in your world view?

Chaplains of the Militia: The tangled story of the Catholic church during Rwanda's genocide - Guardian Shorts | 60-Minute Masterclasses Guardian Shorts | 60-Minute Masterclasses

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/04/wo.../04uganda.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/10/us...000-names.html

[lukasz]

Except ISIS is actually trying to follow the Koran to the very last word, and the "christians" in that link are not at all trying to follow the bible.

No, they definitely are not. The Quran, like the Bible, says a lot of horrible stuff and a lot of very nice stuff. Books don't kill people. Yes, the BBC is a much better source, thank you. I saw that crazy crap about Israel supporting ISIS and closed the page.

Here is a rebuttal to the Atlantic article:

What The Atlantic Gets Dangerously Wrong About ISIS And Islam | ThinkProgress

[TMB]

Rather than arguing about who has the most evil religion,


Audrey Kurth Cronin | Don’t Use Counterterrorism to Fight ISIS | Foreign Affairs

[Cookietruck]

But if you believe the text , it is not extremism, it's what's required to participate.

haha. good one bro.

[Dallas Tex]

Which part do you want to not include in your world view?

Chaplains of the Militia: The tangled story of the Catholic church during Rwanda's genocide - Guardian Shorts | 60-Minute Masterclasses Guardian Shorts | 60-Minute Masterclasses

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/04/wo.../04uganda.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/10/us...000-names.html

None. NONE of these events justifies islam's heinous oppression and treatment of women, children, gays and unbelievers OR should it shield Islam from criticism.

And the comparison to the KKK is just silly.

[monadnocky]

There are 1.6 billion Muslims in the world. To generalize anything about what Muslims "believe" or "do" beyond some very basic generalizations is a category error of the most basic type.

[Christian Fox]

There are 1.6 billion Muslims in the world. To generalize anything about what Muslims "believe" or "do" beyond some very basic generalizations is a category error of the most basic type.

okay..one of the very basic generalizations is the institutionalized oppression of women. Not hundreds of women in some obscure sect, many millions of women. Oppressed by devout men who would never dream of being a terrorist or have no interest in jihad. Please don't point out that many religions in history have oppressed women; we all know that. I'm talking out about now, about institutionally mandated oppression in statistically significant numbers, not some cult leader in Idaho with 30 wives. Don't confuse a hiccup with a heart attack.

Again, the defense or justifications come from a general unease of being critical of people who look different, or who may be lower on the totem pole of life. The religious right in this country is subject to much criticism, and I rarely (read: never)see anyone outside of them jumping to their defense or trying to protect them from generalizations.