Steep Learning Curve

[duanedr]

Ok, so I picked up a new torch 12 years after taking a local VocTech welding course. I'm going to build a frame. Or maybe a few - for the family. Hey, with 2 growing boys, nice bikes are going to be expensive to upgrade each summer!

I've filleted and lugged around 40 joints so far. A few of the Masters (atmo) told me I should. I've put dropouts into small tubes and built a couple little fixtures out of square tubes. I built a miniature front triangle with lugs. it had a 20cm top tube.

I spend my days in front of a computer. Doing something in the garage with my hands is enjoyable, even if the outcome isn't perfect.

I love bikes. I think I always have. Phil Tenacious is in my veins. I started racing BMX at 12 now I race Old Guys Category on the road, CX and Track. That's a 36 year career. I'm a good racer but spend too much time at baseball, soccer, birthdays, playdates and such to be good at training. Unfortunately results are highly correlated to training, practice.

For the past several months, I've been reading through these forums and have spent hours studying shop layouts, reading every word of the Masters (atmo) related to tip size and which torch is best. I am well informed on alignment tables. I know about 56 and 50N silver and have 4 different tubs of flux in the garage (the thick white stuff works best for me). I have 5 different files, a vice, a hack saw and a drill. I bought some tubing blocks and a straight edge. I'm trying to learn the process so I can be proud of the outcome.

Many of the Masters (atmo) have said they benefited from those who gave their knowledge freely. I read where some of the Masters (again, atmo) have said they want to pass along knowledge to new builders. That's how we all get better. I agree and frankly, without these forums and the openness of the Masters (atmo) who contribute, I would have been discouraged long ago; or maybe I would just continue over-heating joints, using the wrong flux and my kids would ride around on poorly aligned bikes.

I read in one thread how builders don't want to talk about alignment issues. Many of the Masters (atmo) chimed in, with specifics, and measurements - lots of details. They're a giving bunch who, I think, are passionate about what they do and want to push the trade forward. Good folks is what I'd call them. I'd love to take all of them out for a beer. I think that would be fun.

However, after all of the reading, searching, studying and pondering, I haven't seen anyone - not a single one of the Masters (atmo) - provide the most important tidbit that a new builder needs. Maybe it seemed just too obvious to the Masters (atmo) to state out loud. Maybe they thought it was like telling someone how to hit a home run - you shouldn't have to tell them to swing the bat. It's obvious. Maybe the Masters (atmo) figured they'd tell us pretenders just enough to allow us to build a safe frame . But what they held back...that key piece of information...

Tonight I figured out that while brazing, it's important to note which end of the brazing rod was in the flame. If you don't pay attention to this small point and you set the rod down for just a second to adjust your work, you may find yourself with VERY tender finger tips. Richard, Steve, Andrew, Andy, Unterhausen, Doug and so many others ...not a single one of you pointed this out.

Burnt fingers or not, I will carry on with my quest to build a frame. You can withhold critical info but, if I have to, I'll learn it the hard way (yes, I have flashback arresters on the torch)!

Another thing I've noticed is that my shop has something I have yet to see in any pictures of the Masters' (atmo) shops - a rag with blood stains. Every Monday I go back to work with at least 1 new hand injury.

Seriously, I'd like to extend a hearty Thank You to all of the Masters (atmo) who give their hard earned knowledge and experience so freely to n00bs like me so we can spend a few Walter Mitty hours in the garage building something that is useful, practical, fun, liberating, strong, sleek, simple and complex. A bicycle is a wonderful thing and you all bring tons of enjoyment to your 'customers' - whomever they may be.

Thanks!

[bencooper]

I'm always burning myself - got myself on the thumb with a brass rod on Saturday. Just a hazard of the job I think.

Once set my hair on fire, getting too close to a complex internal joint.

[e-RICHIE]

[bencooper]

First time I've ever done it - dropped the rod in the middle of doing a fillet ;-)

At the moment, I'm mostly burning myself when TIG welding. After a couple of decades using gas, my subconscious knows that stuff goes red and orange when it's hot. My subconscious doesn't understand that metal that's been TIGed is still hot even if I didn't see it change colour.

[emanuel]

stick the hot brazing rod back in the tin of flux, we use Illy coffee tins,because they're metal and the right size.
I burned myself once,and stuck a spoke nipple on the safe end for the next month or so.

[steve garro]

It becomes a form of proprioception.
Me, I put the 3" stubs hot end 1st into my flux bowl I'm using at the moment.
I like the hiss, it makes me a little happy inside.
- Garro.

[Mark Kelly]

My subconscious doesn't understand that metal that's been TIGed is still hot even if I didn't see it change colour.

I learnt metalwork on stainless steel in breweries. First time I cut aluminium on a dropsaw I held the piece with my left hand like I always do with stainless.

Aluminium conducts heat way more betterer. Ouch.

[Mike Mcdermid]

when i was taught to weld 20 years ago the guy showed me the most important thing first

bend the end of the rod over 180 degrees

it has two benefits

it wont take your eye out completely

it will tell you which end is the hot end

" I asked how it would not get snagged on my jacket"

the answer was that if it was close enough to my person i was feeding the rod wrong,

"I asked isn't it wasteful"

the answer that the last 2 inches of rod if you get to be burning that far my sense of smell be wondering who's cooking the bacon

to this day the advice has proved correct and is one of those bits of advice that dies with people.....you dont learn everything of tinternet

[steve garro]

I'm saving all my stubs to go pour something cool at a friend's foundry.
- Garro.

[duanedr]

The work from last night just came out of the soaking tub and looks pretty good. Good internal fillet and fairly smooth around the outside. Nowhere near what I've seen from some of you all but, I think it'll hold.

I'll be ordering up the last few bits I need to start in on a proper frame in the next few days.

Again, thanks for all the guidance and humor from each and every one of you. I'm sure I will learn more from you all soon.

[bencooper]

I have a special holder for using up the stubs of silver solder:

image.jpg

[emanuel]

why does nobody heat the end of the stub and stick it to a new rod?it's a bit wonky but works fine
am I missing something?
it's standard procedure here.

[Curt Goodrich]

why does nobody heat the end of the stub and stick it to a new rod?it's a bit wonky but works fine
am I missing something?
it's standard procedure here.

I've always done the same.

[false_aesthetic]

Tip:

Don't wear athletic shoes while brazing. And, if you drip metal on your foot, turn the torch off before you try to take off your shoe.

Yeah after working in a foundry for 4 years I have no excuse. Just stupidity.

[Dave Anderson]

I've always done the same.

Me too........my grandpa had me sticking rod pieces together before I even knew how to ride a bike.

[savine]

I do both, stick stubs together and also have tool to hold though tool feels to chunky in hand or maybe my head..

[jaredjerome]

When I was working for a BMX company all of my jeans had a bunch of tiny holes in the right thigh.

It's faster that way.

[zank]

when i was taught to weld 20 years ago the guy showed me the most important thing first

bend the end of the rod over 180 degrees

it has two benefits

it wont take your eye out completely

it will tell you which end is the hot end

" I asked how it would not get snagged on my jacket"

the answer was that if it was close enough to my person i was feeding the rod wrong,

"I asked isn't it wasteful"

the answer that the last 2 inches of rod if you get to be burning that far my sense of smell be wondering who's cooking the bacon

to this day the advice has proved correct and is one of those bits of advice that dies with people.....you dont learn everything of tinternet

Bending the end of the filler rod was one of the first safety items they taught us at the Lincoln school GTAW class. So at least it's being passed on to some people.

[bencooper]

Plus, it helps you find the half-used rod in the tube ;-)

[Mark Walberg]

Tip:

Don't wear athletic shoes while brazing. And, if you drip metal on your foot, turn the torch off before you try to take off your shoe.

Yeah after working in a foundry for 4 years I have no excuse. Just stupidity.

This reminds me about doing something stupid when I was about 10.
I broke my foot and got a cast up to below the knee.
Later, I was soldering something.
The hot solder (lead) dropped down between the cast and my leg. Ouch!
When they took the cast off later, the doc wondered what that black wound was.
He asked me if anything had happened, which I, of course, denied.

So, don't solder wearing shorts.
-Mark