Getting Water Out of Vent Holes

[jaredjerome]

This is probably a massive noob question, and I've done some searching but haven't seen anything.

After you throw your forks or frame in the water for a soak, how do you get all of the water that has gotten into tubes via vent holes out of the tubes? I've tried just rocking back and forth but this takes a while and isn't really very effective. I've thought about lightly heating the tubes and evaporating the water, but this seems like it might fuck the tube a bit.

While working in a factory setting I always dealt with TIG and we never even had a water tank, so this wasn't something I had to deal with until I've recently started making frames for fun on my own.

Thanks, and I hope there wasn't an obvious thread that I skipped over while searching!

[e-RICHIE]

I never submerge stays/fork such that water gets inside. Typically the holes are already sealed atmo.
If there is condensation, just wave the torch all over the parts until the vapor stops. Then seal it all.

[jaredjerome]

I never submerge stays/fork such that water gets inside. Typically the holes are already sealed atmo.
If there is condensation, just wave the torch all over the parts until the vapor stops. Then seal it all.

Thanks, this makes sense. I've seen people seal holes, and some people leave them, so I was unclear on what the proper protocol is.

[e-RICHIE]

Thanks, this makes sense. I've seen people seal holes, and some people leave them, so I was unclear on what the proper protocol is.

Nothing is proper atmo.
But I would never ever leave them open/exposed.

[jaredjerome]

Nothing is proper atmo.
But I would never ever leave them open/exposed.

Thanks - luckily on the frames I've made that are in use I filled the holes. Just recently I decided to leave them open on a frameset I built for myself after seeing others like that. I'll just keep on filling them. Good for me I haven't painted the open one yet!

[Eric Estlund]

Compressed air and a little evaporation.

I've seen so many rusted out "sealed" tubes I have at least two ways out for every tube. Gives water a place to get out (in use, not just in my shop) and a place for frame saver to go in.

[jaredjerome]

Compressed air and a little evaporation.

I've seen so many rusted out "sealed" tubes I have at least two ways out for every tube. Gives water a place to get out (in use, not just in my shop) and a place for frame saver to go in.

That was my initial thought when I saw frames with open vent holes.

Well, I guess I have a couple options to think over.

[steve garro]

Compressed air and a little evaporation.

I've seen so many rusted out "sealed" tubes I have at least two ways out for every tube. Gives water a place to get out (in use, not just in my shop) and a place for frame saver to go in.

I do that too after my 100% sealed Fat City rusted out - the only bike to do so.
MTB's get slathered pretty hard.
Every tube hole in >>> hole out.
- Garro.

[Curt Goodrich]

[QUOTE=steve garro;496332]I do that too after my 100% sealed Fat City rusted out - the only bike to do so.
MTB's get slathered pretty hard.
Every tube hole in >>> hole out.
- Garro.[/QUOTE

The Fat Cities that I saw rust out only rusted in the seat tubes. Where did yours?

[steve garro]

[QUOTE=Curt Goodrich;496334]

I do that too after my 100% sealed Fat City rusted out - the only bike to do so.
MTB's get slathered pretty hard.
Every tube hole in >>> hole out.
- Garro.[/QUOTE

The Fat Cities that I saw rust out only rusted in the seat tubes. Where did yours?

DT/ST that I found, all down low on the tubes + it cracked at the "Double Chin" gusset - and the post seized - they always did that, too.
What prompted my love of vent holes. A good builder should have a story as to why they do what features they do, right?
If not I wouldn't drill them as I wouldn't miss the extra steps.

- Garro.

[Eric Estlund]

I've seen sealed bikes rust out the stays at the BB junction, BB's rust nearly through without drain holes and ST/ Dt's for the same reason.

I got my start in places with a high salt count, either from the roads in winter or the sea air.

Of course all of this is avoidable, but I try to make long term maintenance as easy as possible for the end user.

[Curt Goodrich]

I agree with all that's been said but I have a little different spin on things. With regard to seat stay and fork blade vent holes, leaving them open traditionally was viewed as a production approach while the more finely crafted frames had them sealed up. I've always felt this way. Having said that I've left the vents open on lots of frames while I was a contract builder or in production because my opinion didn't matter, that's what the customer wanted and quite frankly it made my job easier. Now that I just build my own frames I prefer to seal up fork blades and seat stays. It's more work but then customer has zero maintenance issues and I've never seen any rust out because of it. Now bb's are different issue. Water always gets in so I drill those out if there isn't already some opening cast in. Sure it let's water in but it also lets it back out.

[echelon_john]

So do those of you who seal the holes up do anything to de-flux the inside of the joint? e-R mentioned not ever getting water inside the tube; it seems like this is potentially allowing the flux that remains in there to either break of and rattle around or eat into things over time. Obviously, sealing the tube eliminates the oxygen, but can anybody address the flux issue?

[Curt Goodrich]

So do those of you who seal the holes up do anything to de-flux the inside of the joint? e-R mentioned not ever getting water inside the tube; it seems like this is potentially allowing the flux that remains in there to either break of and rattle around or eat into things over time. Obviously, sealing the tube eliminates the oxygen, but can anybody address the flux issue?

I always soak the flux out before sealing. To get the water out after soaking and before sealing I heat the tube and boil the water out. Quick and no rattlers.

[e-RICHIE]

I always soak the flux out before sealing. To get the water out after soaking and before sealing I heat the tube and boil the water out. Quick and no rattlers.

Agreed. I don't worry about it at all atmo. Much ado about less than nothing.

[Amaro Bikes]

I do feel ok by leaving "open" the bb shell holes and then close all other holes around, so it's some kind of closing door to water inputs and leaving open the out door. This way, all possible water coming inside of the frame (and it will always happen) goes "naturally" downstairs till it arrives to the bb, wich having all doors open will receive this water and leave it out by the down hole.

I feel like leaving the droput holes open is giving too much options to water to get in.

But as usual, is incredibly enriching and fascinating how many experienced builders do approach the same question with almost opposite perspectives. There's never an absolute, just each one's approach to it.

Thanks all for sharing your views

[David Tollefson]

Seems to me the construction of the frame makes a big difference here. Tig'd or fillet brazed tubes, the openings to the BB shell from the various tubes isn't fully open. With a lugged frame, the tubes are fully open to the BB shell, so water draining to that low point is unrestricted.

[Dallas Tex]

I do feel ok by leaving "open" the bb shell holes and then close all other holes around, so it's some kind of closing door to water inputs and leaving open the out door. This way, all possible water coming inside of the frame (and it will always happen) goes "naturally" downstairs till it arrives to the bb, wich having all doors open will receive this water and leave it out by the down hole.

I feel like leaving the droput holes open is giving too much options to water to get in.

But as usual, is incredibly enriching and fascinating how many experienced builders do approach the same question with almost opposite perspectives. There's never an absolute, just each one's approach to it.

Thanks all for sharing your views

imho, the battle is to give moisture a way to drain & evaporate. The battle to keep moisture out is already lost, as it will get in. Some amount is already in the air inside the tube. I just try give it a way to dry.

[Andrew R Stewart]

What no one has mentioned is the effect of vent holes when painting. Now I'm no painter but have a high regard of those whose job it is to make me look better then i am. I've learned the hard way that hidden holes or single tube vents are a challenge for some painters. The builder might feel that since they know where the holes are and they've told (often in the form of a note sheet) their painter where the holes are, there will be no more concerns. This assumption can be wrong, and when you wrong your painter your frames reputation can suffer. I've had painters complain of sand sifting out of tubes they never thought to tape off after blasting. Cleaning solutions not draining from tubes fully. And hole sealing jobs that weren't really sealed. In an ideal world a builder has gotten past this and has a good understanding with his painter. But when you only build a frame a year and have moved around a few times the painter available might not be the same for many frames. So in this discussion of vent holes I suggest that the needs and preferences of your painter is considered and accommodated. Andy.