Bikes and how they are ridden

[swoop]

sure... but not to the extent that you do on a bike. and not forward or backwards or down?

[Dave Kirk]

sure... but not to the extent that you do on a bike. and not forward or backwards or down?

"You are correct sir!" (said in my mind like Ed McMann said that to the great Carson). You passively move fore/aft because you can't help it when the thing will go and stop the way a race cart will. But you do actively lean to get the cart to stick or break loose and rotate. Not the same as on a bike but not totally different either.

Dave

[Sandy]

Since you have raced bikes and cars (maybe motorcycles?), I have a question for you- Is the line that one should take (whatever should means) in a car, bike, and motorcycle basically the same as one goes through a curve? I would think so. I would think that factors for a car or motorcycle such as power, weight distribution,weight of vehicle and driver, and front versus rear wheel (or all wheel) drive and how they would affect understeer and oversteer, and the driver's usage or non-useage of built in systems that actively influence the handling/limits of the car/motorcycle, would all come into play, but the actual line would be basically the same in all three types of vehicles. Is that correct, please?

I have a wonderful handling car. Best thing for me to do is take lessons to learn how to really drive it- For safety, confidence, and better enjoyment. The car is severely limited by my driving abilities, confidence in using its abilities, and common sense that I am driving on streets and not a track. Learning the precise line to take as mentioned above would be quite helpful and efficient, I would think. I don't go into turns arbitrarily, but certainly not as efficiently as I am sure you and other racers do.


Sandy

[taylorj]

...Descending and cornering are my weak spots. It's more in my head than anywhere else, and all the "reading tips" in the world would not help me get out of my own way. I used to sky-dive as much as I could---started in college and was hooked. When you learn how to jump out of planes, you jump in tandem before you first solo. One day, my husband came home with a racing tandem. we are like the jolly-green giant and the midget---and so he was careful to spec short little cranks (so I could easily spin his cadence) and went on a long climbing ride with lots of twisty hills and a narly descent (page Mill Road for those wonderin').

I learned more about leaning the bike and cornering on that one ride than in any other place.

Mr. Kirk's tips are excellent and it is a pity to filter through all the personal diatribes here...but I gladly do it because there's lots of good info once I put it through the filter.

It reminds me of that other board when Flux and Big daddy would give "real world" advice and they'd get followed up with whiny "yeah, but's". Very strange.

In any case---I love this thread and this spacemo---

Ride more...whine less, and you will become a better and happier bike rider. If a tip doesn't work, don't do it. This tandem thing has some cool points---and was an interesting way for me to learn how to ride my bike downhill and safely through a corner...

[Sandy]

Maybe I can give some insight as to why some people aren't really that interested in excellent advice/knowledge that will improve their cycling.

I know a young female cyclist who I have done group rides with. She is very small and lean, and undoubtedly does not weigh 100 pounds. She appears very relaxed on the bike, stands and rides off the saddle in a very smooth and graceful appearing manner. When in group rides she tended to fall behind because it is aparent to me that she simply is not very strong. I would climb hills with her (I am a poor climber) and although I am twice her body weight, I would often climb in substantially larger gears (much larger). I have told her that she could really improve a great deal and keep up better if she simply worked at getting stronger. She said that she is satisfied where she is in her cycling, understands clearly her abilities, and really has no desire to change.

She is a recreational cylist in excellent condition (often runs a few miles before cycling, and does lots of stretching) who simply enjoys where she is at in cycling, enjoys doing group rides with her friends and the camaraderie involved. She just doesn't care if she improves or how strong she is. She is very happy in the cycling she does. I have told her that her drivetrain seemed to make some significant noise an that she should have it checked. She said that it was a function of how she pedals. Doesn't bother her at all.

She is a pleasure to ride with- exceptionally sweet, reads cue sheets very well, rides extremely safely in a group, being very predictable in how she rides.

Bottom line is that she doesn't care about advice to improve. Interestingly, she has gotten stronger, probably just as a function of cycling more and doing some climbing on rides.

I hope the above makes sense to you.



Sandy

[Too Tall]

Maybe I can give some insight as to why some people aren't really that interested in excellent advice/knowledge that will improve their cycling.

I know a young female cyclist who I have done group rides with. She is very small and lean, and undoubtedly does not weigh 100 pounds. She appears very relaxed on the bike, stands and rides off the saddle in a very smooth and graceful appearing manner. When in group rides she tended to fall behind because it is aparent to me that she simply is not very strong. I would climb hills with her (I am a poor climber) and although I am twice her body weight, I would often climb in substantially larger gears (much larger). I have told her that she could really improve a great deal and keep up better if she simply worked at getting stronger. She said that she is satisfied where she is in her cycling, understands clearly her abilities, and really has no desire to change.

She is a recreational cylist in excellent condition (often runs a few miles before cycling, and does lots of stretching) who simply enjoys where she is at in cycling, enjoys doing group rides with her friends and the camaraderie involved. She just doesn't care if she improves or how strong she is. She is very happy in the cycling she does. I have told her that her drivetrain seemed to make some significant noise an that she should have it checked. She said that it was a function of how she pedals. Doesn't bother her at all.

She is a pleasure to ride with- exceptionally sweet, reads cue sheets very well, rides extremely safely in a group, being very predictable in how she rides.

Bottom line is that she doesn't care about advice to improve. Interestingly, she has gotten stronger, probably just as a function of cycling more and doing some climbing on rides.

I hope the above makes sense to you.



Sandy

The above made sense to me. She does get support from yourself, you are good person. Tell me what is the best advice you have ever gotten to improve your riding?

[Sandy]

The above made sense to me. She does get support from yourself, you are good person. Tell me what is the best advice you have ever gotten to improve your riding?

I will give you two that I think might be best, although I never fully implemented either of them. They are really dissimilar in approach and actually contradictory in nature, but I think that both would improve MY cycling a great deal, with the second probably more ultimately:

1. e-RICHIE- Ride for 70 minutes every day, spinning at a high cadence. Simple advice, but probably extremely productive.

2. Ti-Designs- Don't ride the bike outside at all initially.Take your bike and ride it on the trainer, starting with one legged drills, after you have been fit properly on the bike. Work towards eliminating rough spots in your pedal stroke with the goal of a smooth fluid srtoke that uses all muscle groups efficiently. Try to position yourself in an efficient position. Learn what muscle groups are involved in the pedal stroke and how and when to incorporate each. Add power to the stroke later.That is just a partial summary. What I like about Ti's approach is that you are able to focus on the job at hand and are not influenced by any outside stimuli. You also learn how to pedal correctly as opposed to simply repeating ad nauseum the same mistakes.


Sandy

[Dekonick]

"You are correct sir!" (said in my mind like Ed McMann said that to the great Carson). You passively move fore/aft because you can't help it when the thing will go and stop the way a race cart will. But you do actively lean to get the cart to stick or break loose and rotate. Not the same as on a bike but not totally different either.

Dave

Physics is physics. Mass in motion will act like mass in motion until acted upon - It is learning how to trust your bike that is the hard part IMHO.

I know I brake too much when I corner. I know that braking will cause me to load my front wheel and cause the bike to want to straighten up, which does not help the cornering at all - but somehow the disconect is between knowledge, trust, and understanding.

Knowledge is key - understanding is better. Trust - now that is the ultimate. Gotta have guts...to ride like the best.

But - like stated above - feeling how mass in motion acts when acted upon has gotta help you learn - even if it is a 'kart and not a crit bike.