2020 Political Chatter

[gregl]

Creating vast wedges of single issue voters has worked surprisingly well for the R’s over the past three decades. This is just more of the same.

(And this despite the fact that many Irish/Italian/etc catholic have also historically been pro labor, it’s really remarkable when you think about it.)

This is the really incredible part of the Trump strategy. Getting the pro-life, 2nd amendment, anti-vax, conspiracy theory, xenophobes, racists, and evangelical groups to form a voting block behind a huckster with no allegiance to any of their causes is absolutely amazing. The Republican Party leadership just jumped on for the ride since they had no other way to win based on policy. Traditional Republican financial policy sank in the Y2K election and hasn't resurfaced since.

Greg

[echappist]

Has anyone mentioned that Evangelicals, Fundamentalists and Pentecostals consider Catholics satanic. As in, literally, the Pope is Satan's representative on Earth. But they're packing the Supreme Court with Roman Catholics? Is this kind of like their support of Israel to accelerate The Rapture? Christian Freaks are so weird.

In their view, the end (as in eschaton) justifies the means. Never mind that it requires so many alliances of conveniences with people whom they wouldn't mind kicking to the curb as soon as the latter's usefulness ceases to exist.

Irony here, of course, is that "immanentizing the eschaton" used to be used pejoratively, in reference to social reforms. The fundamentalists have jumped the shark here and gone straight to the actual eschaton.

[robin3mj]

This is the really incredible part of the Trump strategy. Getting the pro-life, 2nd amendment, anti-vax, conspiracy theory, xenophobes, racists, and evangelical groups to form a voting block behind a huckster with no allegiance to any of their causes is absolutely amazing. The Republican Party leadership just jumped on for the ride since they had no other way to win based on policy. Traditional Republican financial policy sank in the Y2K election and hasn't resurfaced since.

Greg

This is not a Trump-inflected bug but a feature of their platform and any intelligent attempts to rationalize it only serve to give it additional legitimacy

[vertical_doug]

In their view, the end (as in eschaton) justifies the means. Never mind that it requires so many alliances of conveniences with people whom they wouldn't mind kicking to the curb as soon as the latter's usefulness ceases to exist.

Irony here, of course, is that "immanentizing the eschaton" used to be used pejoratively, in reference to social reforms. The fundamentalists have jumped the shark here and gone straight to the actual eschaton.

https://www.salon.com/2020/10/08/tru...stian-fascism/

the form of the Prosperity Gospel, the belief that Jesus came to minister to our material needs, blessing believers with wealth and power.

[Mark Kelly]

I
Irony here, of course, is that "immanentizing the eschaton" used to be used pejoratively, in reference to social reforms.

Surely imminentising rather than immanentising or am I missing something?

FWIW imminentising is close to "making immediate" whilst immanentising is close to "making emergent".

Forgive the use of -ise rather than -ize, the Atlantic separates the preference for each usage.

[ides1056]

If people could graduate beyond the left/right political spectrum, recognizing that it's a package of tribal positions,
there might be hope of dialogue and political progress. What we need is a model how to have a political discussion.

Libertarian - anti coercion
Progressive - anti oppression
Conservative - pro tradition

These are all good ideas*. The key is to put good faith people together and have the hard conversations,
talk about how the benefits of each of these ideas, not how to maximize one while disregarding the others.

-g

*this isn't mine. Pinker said society can't be:Fair, Free, Equal all at the same time. Politics is about choices.

The primary dynamic is up v down, power v powerless.

Right v Left is a dog-and-pony show.

[htwoopup]

Going to just leave this here...Senator Lee from Utah is downright frightening....

Utah Senator by Jon Mandel, on Flickr

[echappist]

Going to just leave this here...Senator Lee from Utah is downright frightening....

Utah Senator by Jon Mandel, on Flickr

Irony has died...

Btw, good to see so many Grauniad dwellers here

Surely imminentising rather than immanentising or am I missing something?

FWIW imminentising is close to "making immediate" whilst immanentising is close to "making emergent".

Forgive the use of -ise rather than -ize, the Atlantic separates the preference for each usage.

I think, and don't quote me on this, it's immanetise/immanetize. I first heard of the phrase while reading about William F. Buckley, and the meaning of the phrase "immanentize the eschaton" is the actualisation/realisation what belongs at the end of the world in the here-and-now.

https://www.salon.com/2020/10/08/tru...stian-fascism/

the form of the Prosperity Gospel, the belief that Jesus came to minister to our material needs, blessing believers with wealth and power.

And it gets worse than that, as it is also the belief of the contrapositive form of the statement, that one only has oneself to blame, if one finds oneself if penury.

[davids]

In their view, the end (as in eschaton) justifies the means. Never mind that it requires so many alliances of conveniences with people whom they wouldn't mind kicking to the curb as soon as the latter's usefulness ceases to exist.

Irony here, of course, is that "immanentizing the eschaton" used to be used pejoratively, in reference to social reforms. The fundamentalists have jumped the shark here and gone straight to the actual eschaton.

This may be the single best post I've ever seen here. I'm awestruck.

As a Jew, evangelical support of Israel has always completely creeped me out.
They support a Jewish state so the Jews can be immolated when the Rapture comes.
Not the best allies ATMO.

[echappist]

This may be the single best post I've ever seen here. I'm awestruck.

As a Jew, evangelical support of Israel has always completely creeped me out.
They support a Jewish state so the Jews can be immolated when the Rapture comes.
Not the best allies ATMO.

Aw-shucks, thanks for the kind words. I'm mostly regurgitating what I've read elsewhere.

It really strikes me as odd that the ilks of Prime Minister Netanyahu actively court the loony fundamentalists while bad-mouth those who advocates a more moderate approach. After all, President Obama did give his blessings (and actual U.S. material support) for the Stuxnet attack on one of Israel's foes, but that's apparently insufficient insofar as support is concerned.

[HorsCat]

This may be the single best post I've ever seen here. I'm awestruck.

As a Jew, evangelical support of Israel has always completely creeped me out.
They support a Jewish state so the Jews can be immolated when the Rapture comes.
Not the best allies ATMO.

I'm not sure they support the Jewish state so much as they support the geography that houses it. If Palestinians controlled that land (fully), they would probably support the "Palestinian state." Maybe I have the facts wrong??

I'm with you, though, about the Evangelical angle as it relates to Israel. I wish my Jewish brothers and sisters who support Trump (still, yes; 'smh' is all I got) and bleat about "he's good for Israel" would have a deeper understanding of things.

[beeatnik]

The events of the Tribulation are summarized in the Gospels but spelled out with great
detail in the Book of Revelation. Those espousing a literal interpretation of John’s Apocalypse
foresee a period of seven years during which the devil’s agent on earth—called the Beast or the
Antichrist—tries to consolidate his hold over the nations. Against the backdrop of God’s
increasingly severe judgments on the earth, the Beast, who rules a confederation of European
nations, eventually betrays Israel and marches into Palestine, occupying Jerusalem, and
declaring war on the Jews as well as on Christians. The last three-and-one-half years of the
Tribulation are especially hard because of God’s wrath against the Beast and his agents and
because in desperation the nations of the world begin to gather armies to oppose first each
other, and later the returning Christ.

https://www.jhuapl.edu/Content/docum...ypseVision.pdf


Some Christian Zionists believe that the gathering of the Jews in Israel is a prerequisite for the Second Coming of Jesus. The idea has been common in Protestant circles since the Reformation that Christians should actively support a Jewish return to the Land of Israel, along with the parallel idea that the Jews ought to be encouraged to become Christians as a means of fulfilling biblical prophecy

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Zionism

I'm not sure they support the Jewish state so much as they support the geography that houses it. If Palestinians controlled that land (fully), they would probably support the "Palestinian state." Maybe I have the facts wrong??

I'm with you, though, about the Evangelical angle as it relates to Israel. I wish my Jewish brothers and sisters who support Trump (still, yes; 'smh' is all I got) and bleat about "he's good for Israel" would have a deeper understanding of things.

[HorsCat]

@beeatnik Thanks for that (in particular the first link, which I will need to digest when more time is available).

I'll be mindful of large gatherings of my people in Israel going forward. If 'gathering' requires all MOTs to participate, I promise to be the lone holdout. Purely for purposes of self preservation, of course!

[Mark Kelly]

I think, and don't quote me on this, it's immanetise/immanetize.

I am going to quote you on it (see I just did). It looks like you are right, I should have looked it up: it has a wiki page.

[BBB]

The events of the Tribulation are summarized in the Gospels but spelled out with great
detail in the Book of Revelation. Those espousing a literal interpretation of John’s Apocalypse
foresee a period of seven years during which the devil’s agent on earth—called the Beast or the
Antichrist—tries to consolidate his hold over the nations. Against the backdrop of God’s
increasingly severe judgments on the earth, the Beast, who rules a confederation of European
nations, eventually betrays Israel and marches into Palestine, occupying Jerusalem, and
declaring war on the Jews as well as on Christians. The last three-and-one-half years of the
Tribulation are especially hard because of God’s wrath against the Beast and his agents and
because in desperation the nations of the world begin to gather armies to oppose first each
other, and later the returning Christ.

https://www.jhuapl.edu/Content/docum...ypseVision.pdf

That is just weird. IMO of course.

[Scott G.]

[I]
The events of the Tribulation are summarized in the Gospels but spelled out with great
detail in the Book of Revelation. Those espousing a literal interpretation of John’s Apocalypse
foresee a period of seven years during which the devil’s agent on earth—called the Beast or the
Antichrist—tries to consolidate his hold over the nations.

So this means DJT gets a second term ?

[BBB]

So this means DJT gets a second term ?

That's pretty funny.

Trump as the Beast...rules with a confederation of European nations...imagine the complaints about not pulling your weight, making proper financial contributions and the heads of various European nations being caught having a chuckle at the Beast on camera.

God's wrath against the Beast is...the 'rona? What happened to it being made by the Chinese? And the Beast just beat the 'rona too.

And yet the Beast is supposedly a gift from God. Yet this gift is causing as to (apparently) gather armies against one another.

It's all so confusing.

[ides1056]

A watched pot never boils.

[johnmdesigner]

Jesus this is fucking unbelievable.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/ag-mi...b618df3e80165e

[gregl]

Jesus this is fucking unbelievable.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/ag-mi...b618df3e80165e

"Good people with guns" according to the NRA. Does this qualify the NRA as a domestic terrorist organization?

Greg