Vehicles --- Subaru

[Matthew Strongin]

We have a V90CC and it's fantastic, with two exceptions. The braking is terrible. Vague and grabby at the same time. And the infotainment system was designed by someone who never actually used it. Other than that it's great.

[Buzz Killington]

My wife’s Forester was just rear-ended by a distracted driver going about 40-45mph. She was stopped to turn, waiting for oncoming traffic to pass. Both cars totaled. She walked away. Very sore and whiplash, but still able to walk away.

[ides1056]

Sorry: V70, not V60.

Two footed drivers, please. Don't insult me.

I just put new front brakes on my R at 85K. The Volvo brakes lasted maybe half that, but it was an automatic that would freewheel downhill.

[Matthew Strongin]

My wife’s Forester was just rear-ended by a distracted driver going about 40-45mph. She was stopped to turn, waiting for oncoming traffic to pass. Both cars totaled. She walked away. Very sore and whiplash, but still able to walk away.

Crap, glad she's ok, but that really sucks.

[deano]

Crap, glad she's ok, but that really sucks.

Yes, indeed, glad she's OK. That's one thing I forgot to say is safety. I never want to this out for myself, but they are reputed to be quite safe. My sister had a similar experience... very bad accident, state trooper on the scene was surprised she wasn't hurt. She was in the previous gen ('05 Forester).

[ides1056]

My grandmother had a Subaru an employee drove. She was T-boned by a car doing better than 55 when she crossed a highway. The car exploded around her and she walked away relatively unscathed.

[j44ke]

Sorry: V70, not V60.

Two footed drivers, please. Don't insult me.

I just put new front brakes on my R at 85K. The Volvo brakes lasted maybe half that, but it was an automatic that would freewheel downhill.

Our V60 has a button for turning on engine braking. Not sure if that's a new thing. I think they did freewheeling as a gas mileage saver, but you end up tapping your brakes on the highway unless you use cruise control. Unless you can use cruise control I should say. Twisting country roads means no cruise control generally. I figure discs just die in the northeast from the salt and grit in winter, but then Sweden should have this figured out. I agree.

[ides1056]

I am sure the transmissions are more sophisticated now, but our Toyotas downshift automatically when you touch the brakes a few times.

I prefer driving a manual transmission anyway.

[VertigoCycles]

It's been mentioned a few times here already, but the head gasket issue is a bummer. My wife has a 2006 Outback which has about 50K on it right now and we had to replace the head gasket last year. It's currently spotting oil in the driveway again and I need to have it check out. That's unacceptable to me and we'll never buy another Subaru.

I have a Volvo V70 (1998) and love it but replaced it with a Honda Odyssey in 2013, which I like even more.

[DCT]

I have a 2017 Outback 3.6r. Anyone know if the head gasket is an issue with this year/model?

[lumpy]

I have a 2017 Outback 3.6r. Anyone know if the head gasket is an issue with this year/model?

Supposedly there is no problem with the Big Motors like yours.

[Peter B]

My understanding is that the circa 1999-2009/2010 2.5l 4cyl engines were the ones that suffered from the notorious head gasket failures. It seems Subaru revised the gasket design in later iterations along with several other engine design changes and subsequent years do not report the same relatively high instance of failure. IIRC the 3.6l did not suffer these issues and is reportedly a very reliable engine.

[TTX1]

If Lumpy has one, they have to be at least decent. But I would still opt for something else, like a VW badged Audi.

We can hang.

I drive a de-badged Audi, in part for the reason posted above: 98% highway.



I get ~ 30mpg (very light foot here).

This is my 4th Audi wagon, 6th Audi overall. I've had great luck with reliability. First three I purchased new, then switched to used. I buy them with 100k and see how far I can go... Before this, I had an S4 wagon that I drove to 160k. I picked this one up two years ago with just over 100k on the clock, it's been great. Oil, tires, wipers - that's it.

I don't know why I leave those bars on the roof, the bike and skis always go inside...

I've looked at Subarus, and there have been two in my extended family. Also good cars, no doubt.

[NYCfixie]

It's been mentioned a few times here already, but the head gasket issue is a bummer. My wife has a 2006 Outback which has about 50K on it right now and we had to replace the head gasket last year. It's currently spotting oil in the driveway again and I need to have it check out. That's unacceptable to me and we'll never buy another Subaru.

I have a Volvo V70 (1998) and love it but replaced it with a Honda Odyssey in 2013, which I like even more.

I am not sure if you know but you have 2 head gaskets (on a boxer engine) so it may be that you replaced 1 side and now have the issue on the other side.

I have a 2017 Outback 3.6r. Anyone know if the head gasket is an issue with this year/model?

Probably not, but see below.

Supposedly there is no problem with the Big Motors like yours.

Not true, see below.

My understanding is that the circa 1999-2009/2010 2.5l 4cyl engines were the ones that suffered from the notorious head gasket failures. It seems Subaru revised the gasket design in later iterations along with several other engine design changes and subsequent years do not report the same relatively high instance of failure. IIRC the 3.6l did not suffer these issues and is reportedly a very reliable engine.

It was mentioned earlier in this thread but I believe the problem may not have been fixed until the 2014 or 2015 model year motor. I personally don't yet believe there is a fix since most of those cars may not yet have enough miles for the dreaded head gasket issue to show itself. It affects(ed) both 4cyl and 6cyl motors. I believe the fix was to both the head gasket (a $5 part) and the cooling system. As you noted though, it is still not 100% (or even close to that number) fixed. And of course, as of the 2020 model year, Subaru no longer offers a 6cly.

The issue is with the design of the motor. A boxer/flat engine (opposing cylinders) is more prone to this failure because the head gasket between the head and engine block is vertical rather than horizontal on an engine with inline (or even a V) cylinder setup. As the engine and head go through cycles of heating and cooling over their lifespans, the size and thus tolerances change which causes the leak. When a head sits atop a gasket and the block (in a non boxer/flat engine) it will take much more time to produce the same failure.

The reason Subaru (and Porsche on cars and BMW on some motorcycles) use this engine type is that it helps decrease engine vibration and most importantly keeps the weight in the vehicle lower than other engine types.

[VertigoCycles]

I am not sure if you know but you have 2 head gaskets (on a boxer engine) so it may be that you replaced 1 side and now have the issue on the other side.

I hadn't thought much about it to be honest but that's probably what's going on. Considering safe places to light it on fire right now.

edit: just looked at our receipt. They replaced both

[NYCfixie]

I hadn't thought much about it to be honest but that's probably what's going on. Considering safe places to light it on fire right now.

edit: just looked at our receipt. They replaced both

Sorry.

Did they face (not unlike a BB or HT) the block and/or head or just replace the gaskets?

Either way the entire engine comes out of the car so its foolish to not face the parts (which actually helps fix the issue). Also replace the water pump and the timing belt as long as they are in there (normally both are replaced at 105k). The labor cost is the same so you are only paying for the parts at that point. Even if they do not cover the parts cost (assuming everything else is covered under warranty), you might as well pay for them yourself and have them replaced. It is literally no extra labor for them, they are either putting an old timing belt and water pump back on or new ones.

Don't ask me how I know...


I am personally done with Subaru (new 2000 Outback at 75k, new 2009 Outback at 103k, and my mothers 2001 Forester at 83k all had head gasket failures)
And, I doubt I will ever buy another car that is not a Toyota/Lexus. Any good and honest independent mechanic will tell you that they are they best built and least expensive cars to fix.

[Peter B]

So the current Crosstreks run a 2.0l flat 4 and I've not heard of the same HG failures. Likewise WRX. Foresters and NA Outbacks are running a newer version of the 2.5. No timing belt on any of these current versions. So its relevant to discuss engine variants when discussion failure history. There is a reason I didn't buy a 2000's Forester. As for facing sealing surfaces, the head should be considered for resurfacing when rebuilding. The block is a bit more problematic unless you've opted for a complete teardown and rebuild. I sure don't want anyone machining my block with all the spinny bits in place.

[NYCfixie]

So the current Crosstreks run a 2.0l flat 4 and I've not heard of the same HG failures. Likewise WRX. Foresters and NA Outbacks are running a newer version of the 2.5. No timing belt on any of these current versions. So its relevant to discuss engine variants when discussion failure history. There is a reason I didn't buy a 2000's Forester. As for facing sealing surfaces, the head should be considered for resurfacing when rebuilding. The block is a bit more problematic unless you've opted for a complete teardown and rebuild. I sure don't want anyone machining my block with all the spinny bits in place.

AFAIK, Porsche runs flat engines and Subaru uses boxer engines. There is a mechanical difference but for purposes of this thread I am not sure it matters.

I agree about engine variants but since I (or we) are discussing model years, I believe most engines were replaced by the 2014/2015 model years for all cars. At the end of the day, Subaru really only has 2 platforms for several cars: Impreza (Impreza, Crostrek, Forester, WRX) and Legacy (Legacy, Outback). In a similar manner, they really only have a few engine types that have evolved over the years (i.e. newer version of the same basic design): 4cyl, 4cyl Turbo, and 6cyl. As of 2020, they offer a 4cyl and a 4cyl Turbo.

What I referenced about timing belts and water pumps above is correct for Sean's 2006 Outback.

As for other models: "...Since 2013, all Subaru engines have been equipped with timing chains rather than belts - except for the high-performance Subaru WRX and WRX STI. The WRX got one more year with a timing belt in 2014, and the WRX STI still uses a timing belt to this day. That's because these engines are designed to be driven hard by enthusiasts who enjoy taking their car on twisty two-lane roads and track days. The extra stress of high-performance driving means replacing parts like timing belts more often. Using a timing belt instead of a chain makes replacement easy, so these engines can work extra hard and stay in time." source: https://www.cartersubaruballard.com/...seattle-wa.htm

As I am not an engineer, I can only summarize and regurgitate (with good understanding) what I have learned about these cars and engines from talking with several Subaru and independent mechanics and service advisors and my own research during the past 20 years (2000-2020).

Prior to that I also learned a great deal about cars, engines, and electrical systems by owning other terrible cars (used 1982 VW Rabbit diesel, new 1987 Chevy S-10 Blazer, and used 1996 Saab 9000).

I was/am a big fan of the Chilton service manuals.

[VertigoCycles]

Sorry.

Did they face (not unlike a BB or HT) the block and/or head or just replace the gaskets?

Either way the entire engine comes out of the car so its foolish to not face the parts (which actually helps fix the issue). Also replace the water pump and the timing belt as long as they are in there (normally both are replaced at 105k). The labor cost is the same so you are only paying for the parts at that point. Even if they do not cover the parts cost (assuming everything else is covered under warranty), you might as well pay for them yourself and have them replaced. It is literally no extra labor for them, they are either putting an old timing belt and water pump back on or new ones.

Don't ask me how I know...

There's no line item for facing the head, so I have to assume that they didn't.

We're due to replace the Outback soon. We bought it in 2006. It needs a new clutch, which is to be expected since it's my wife's daily driver in the city and she likes to drive through neighborhoods because I guess she likes stopping every other block. Waiting to see about the electric F150 and giving her my Odyssey.

[NYCfixie]

There's no line item for facing the head, so I have to assume that they didn't.

We're due to replace the Outback soon. We bought it in 2006. It needs a new clutch, which is to be expected since it's my wife's daily driver in the city and she likes to drive through neighborhoods because I guess she likes stopping every other block. Waiting to see about the electric F150 and giving her my Odyssey.

We bought our Outback in 2009, has 106,000 on it, and we are waiting for the engine to blow up due to the head gaskets needing replacement and/or because we refuse to spend money replacing the timing belt and water pump (due at 105,000). It needs expensive 105k service, tire monitoring system fix, tires soon, brakes soon, ball joints, suspension bushings, power steering pump is leaking, and a few other items I care not to remember. No reason to spend good money on the POS. Same happened with the 2000, at about 100,000 everything starts to fall apart.

We live in a city and rarely use the car anymore (often just parked in the building's garage) so we are torn between a Highlander, Prius AWD, or no-car/Lyft/Uber/rentals. Honestly, we only keep the car because my wife's 80 year old mother lives about 30 miles north of us and my wife wants the peace of mind knowing that she is able to leave at a moments notice if her mother needs her. Seems silly since my wife has a sister who lives closer than us and another sister who literally lives down the block from their mother.

When the Outback dies, we will be forced to make a decision on a suitable replacement option.