Jaegher Cycles

[Jaegher]

We are proud to say that Jaegher rider, Kristof Allegaert has just won the most extreme cycling race in the world; the Red Bull Transiberian Extreme. A total of 9195km devoted in 15 stages ranging from 330km to 1342km. A total of 49.300m of elevation needed to be climbed. Kristof won 7 of the 15 stages and 4 of them were finished in the same time. The total time in which he rode the 9195km is 318h57m30s !

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[Octave]

So after placing in order at the first of June, going through what was a very nice, smooth and communicative process with Kurt at Jaegher, I received my frameset last week. On Wednesday, I opened the box and unwrapped a very carefully, beautifully protected frameset and threw it up into my stand to get the build going. The paint looked perfect, everything was straight and the measurements were correct.

Then, I ran into my first problem - the bottom bracket threads were not properly chased and my BB would not thread in. Okay, I know this happens and I have a local friend who can do it. I'm annoyed but ca va, not the end of the world. After this I step back and realize I need to do a more thorough inspection, not blinded by the sparkly glow that accompanies a new frame day. Welp, that's when the real problem appeared. There are no braze-ons for the rear brake line. No routing whatsoever. The tube is perfect and smooth, painted and straight, just... you know... missing parts. It also had extra parts! Despite specifying that I was building the frame for wireless (i.e. eTap), it contained braze-ons on the down-tube for derailleur routing, and a drilled BB shell with routing bits, plus a final braze-on on the chainstay for the rear derailleur. So they did a great job brazing on pieces that I didn't want (okay fine, I suppose I could use these if I decided to switch back to wired shifting, but an acceptable mistake is still a mistake), and then forgot the ones that I need to actually ride (okay, stop) the bike.

Obviously I immediately contact Kurt, who immediately asked for pictures. I sent him pictures within the minute, then waited more than three days for a response. In that time I specified to him that the situation made me supremely uncomfortable, because it indicates a serious lack of quality control. As I said to him, how am I supposed to put my faith (and life/safety) into a frame that clearly did not undergo serious quality control? If it had even the slightest bit of a check before going out it would have been obvious that it was literally missing a part, no? No frames ship out with either brake-line braze-ons or internal routing for the brake, so how did this one make it under the radar?

He ensured me eventually that this never happens, that I have a lifetime guarantee on the frame, that they will fix it (as long as I ship it to them). He openly dismissed any concerns about the rest of the quality, telling me "You have a lifetime guarantee on the frame. If we are not sure about this we would never give this."

So now I am at an impasse - obviously I will send the frame back (although certainly not on my dollar) and have it fixed, but I remain concerned - can anyone chime in? am I being overly cautious to now have skepticism about the rest of the frame? I do not work in a framebuilding shop, so I do not know how this works; maybe everything else was done by a proper expert and it got sent to the brake-stop station where someone less attentive/skilled passed it over? If this happened to you, would you be comfortable riding the frame after it was fixed?

Anyone else had any recent experiences with Jaegher that they would like to share? If I had read the above story prior to ordering, I doubt I would have dropped several thousand euros into their pockets.

[Tim Porter]

Octave, sorry to hear you're going through such a hassle. There's a thread here on VS by a member named Sascha who had QC problems with the lugged Jaegher frame he bought. They were pretty dismissive of his issues and not overtly helpful (to say the least), as far as I can tell. OTOH, I think I was one of the first here in the US to buy a recent Jaegher frame and it had all its bits and needed very little in the way of frame prep (though we chased and faced everything as a matter of routine anyway). It's a great riding bike and looks super, too. Frankly, I would ride any Jaegher if it is TIG welded but after reading Sacha's thread about his lugged frame I'd be extra careful--maybe to the point of not riding one. . . .

Sadly, these threads take on a life of their own on the internet and one or two people's bad experience can taint a builder's entire reputation, so I want to emphasize that I got a great bike for a great price, and my interactions with them were fine. If I were them, I'd turn myself inside out to make you satisfied and beg for you to document it here, but that's just imho.

[Peter Polack]

Sorry; I feel for ya' as I've been on the same end of the deal but with another builder.

Unfortunately, as Tim pointed out, you're not the only one to receive poor service or product from Jaegher. Read about it HERE.

Let us know how you make out in getting your frame corrected.

[Octave]

Octave, sorry to hear you're going through such a hassle. There's a thread here on VS by a member named Sascha who had QC problems with the lugged Jaegher frame he bought. They were pretty dismissive of his issues and not overtly helpful (to say the least), as far as I can tell. OTOH, I think I was one of the first here in the US to buy a recent Jaegher frame and it had all its bits and needed very little in the way of frame prep (though we chased and faced everything as a matter of routine anyway). It's a great riding bike and looks super, too. Frankly, I would ride any Jaegher if it is TIG welded but after reading Sacha's thread about his lugged frame I'd be extra careful--maybe to the point of not riding one. . . .

This is TIG welded, and it is beautiful - should everything be properly sorted I will indeed ride the shit out of it. I've got a great build ready, and was very excited until this all came about. They have not been especially eager to fix this in the manner I would expect from someone who sent out a very expensive, time-intensive, defective product.

Sadly, these threads take on a life of their own on the internet and one or two people's bad experience can taint a builder's entire reputation, so I want to emphasize that I got a great bike for a great price, and my interactions with them were fine.

If I were them, I'd turn myself inside out to make you satisfied and beg for you to document it here, but that's just imho.

That's my hope too - but I'm not holding my breath at the moment.

Unfortunately, as Tim pointed out, you're not the only one to receive poor service or product from Jaegher. Read about it HERE.

Indeed, after posting I have been informed about that. I don't really spend any time over there so I was unaware, which is one of the reasons I wanted to mention something - partially in the hopes that other people consider whatever has or will unfold here when making their own decision.

[Tim Porter]

Peter Polack--thanks for posting up the link to the Sascha thread--I mistakenly recalled it was on VS and not Paceline. Tim

[takashi]

That Paceline thread is really something.

[Too Tall]

That Paceline thread is really something.

We shall not speak of it...mostly m'kay?

[takashi]

We shall not speak of it...mostly m'kay?

Why is that?

[yashkatsumi]

Morning guys, I can give you guys a quick summary of my experience with Jaegher. Like Octave, the ordering was smooth, and when I paid for full in January 2016, they quoted me 7 weeks for delivery. March comes, they tell me things are delayed for a week or two, then april, then may, then June. They finally got everything together in June, but then sent the frame to the wrong address. A couple of weeks later I finally got the frame and this is what I discovered.
Nice looking frame but,
Rear triangle alignment was off by about three mm to the left
Wrong color
Seat tube not reamed
Bb not faced/chased, head tube not faced, but they pressed the headset in anyways
Brake braze ons in the 6pm position
Fork blades different lengths
They sent me a quality control card, which they are supposed to be checking off as they do their inpsection. The only things which was checked off was the paint.

So after I told them about these problems, they decided to make another one, which took 5 months. The new one was the right color but,

Rear alignment was crooked again
Fork blades were different lengths so the bike would pull hard to the left
And worst of all, the lug work was so poorly finished that there were large gaps between the lug and the tubing.

I tried to reason with Kurt to get my money back since the frame was totally unrideable. At this point he became really unprofessional and irritated and assured me that this type of problem is s first for them, and that I was being too picky, and that the beauty of a handmande product is that it is not perfect. He suggested I pay for shipping both ways from the US, at which point they would inspect the frame to see if it needed to be repaired.

Almost everyone I talked to advised me not to ride that frame.

At about this time, I was also communicating with a german customer who was aslo going through similar quality control issues with jaegher. He was able to sue jaegher since he was in the EU and got half of his money back. They messed up some thing about his bike, fixed it shoddily, and sent it back to him. I saw the repairs and visually, it looked terrible, like someone had taken the minimum amount of effort to fix a problem. When i saw the repair job They did, I decided I had already wasted a year on Jaegher and could not deal with their incompetent company so I gave up and took a $2000 loss on the project and moved on.

I should have posted my experience with Jaegher here earlier so others would not have lose money like I did. This was my 40th birthday present which never materialized. I am hoping the best for Octave, but what they will probably do is do the minimum to get that frame back to him, which means local repairs to fix the braze on issues, and local paint repair, which from what I have seen them do, looks terrible.

[doomridesout]

There are so many professional builders out there who do their best to make it right when mistakes happen... even if these are truly rare incidents why would you gamble with your business? Even if Tristan's theory that it's a communication issue instead of a quality issue is right (and it sounds plausible), the fact that there's no one at the end to take in the gestalt of the finished product and check it against past communications and a broader standard of quality is terrible. With communication being recorded in writing in email, checking the finished product against what was requested is part of QC. Having someone do a final check of this stuff is just fundamental.

[Tristan]

am I being overly cautious to now have skepticism about the rest of the frame? I do not work in a framebuilding shop, so I do not know how this works; maybe everything else was done by a proper expert and it got sent to the brake-stop station where someone less attentive/skilled passed it over? If this happened to you, would you be comfortable riding the frame after it was fixed?

I've got no specific comments about Jaegher but from a production point of view I can see how the error occurred. You asked for no shift cable stops and it's likely that was either written down incorrectly into whatever they use to capture their data and ensure internal communication processes, or the person doing the braze-ons mis-understood and swapped brake for gears.

It's obvious to *you* that it needs a rear brake cable stop, however being a custom product it's likely they've been asked before for a frame without cablestops so someone can run a fixed gear rear hub and no rear brake, or a full length section or housing or something else weird and wonderful.

Assuming the braze-ons looks well made and are installed well I wouldn't worry about the overall quality of the frame. Mistakes happen, and certainly a mistake was made here, however unless the braze-ons look unsafe or there is something in the quality of the workmanship to indicate otherwise I think you can safely assume the error was in communication and not in fabrication.