Not Such A Catastrophic Newby Learning Experience (TM), News at 11

[steve garro]

and a hammer to give the nail a slight taper.

And to set them.....and, save the heads of the finish nails - they are PERFECT for sealing 1/8" vent holes with the slightest dab of filler!
- Garro

[prolix21]

I bought the Paterek Manuel years ago before I came upon this site and have read a lot if it but understood none! Wasted to much money now it's taking up to much space in the bookshelf.

I have a copy that I kinda skimmed after I built my first frame and think I'll stick with what I know works.

[suzyj]

Newbie question here; do not mean to hi-jack. Gearing up for my first frame, of course I have no alignment table. I do have an custom table of with an engineered top, about 1" thick. I had it made a couple years ago but it wouldn't fit into my basement so I cut it down to a smaller 4x5 size to do my frame drawing on. What is best way to measure its flatness? When I put flat objects on it, it kind of "sucks to the surface" because its quite flat and smooth, but no idea if its accurate enough for my first frame even if its not 100$ perfect. If this isn't advisable I'll investigate other methods. Thanks!

The established method is with a steel straight edge and marking fluid. Paint some marking fluid on, then drag the straight edge across. You should remove the marking fluid evenly. Do it lots of times in lots of directions.

That said much of the talk here about machinery and alignment tables is just typical caveman "mine is bigger than yours" stuff. Don't sweat it. Build your frame with what you've got. If there's something that bugs you, investigate the cause and fix it.

[Mark Kelly]

One good thing is the blueprints for tools & things in the back, to be fair.

- Garro.

And one really bad thing is his recommendation to clean steel with hydrochloric acid. When I read that I gave up on the whole book.

[e-RICHIE]

Even simple-mindedness had a pioneer era atmo.

[nspace]

The established method is with a steel straight edge and marking fluid. Paint some marking fluid on, then drag the straight edge across. You should remove the marking fluid evenly. Do it lots of times in lots of directions.

That said much of the talk here about machinery and alignment tables is just typical caveman "mine is bigger than yours" stuff. Don't sweat it. Build your frame with what you've got. If there's something that bugs you, investigate the cause and fix it.

:) Thanks! At times it seems a little intimidating seeing all the tools/equipment/machinists here, but I do have to remind myself that there is a significant contingent present who need to be much more efficient as they do this for a living; much different priorities than my for-fun attempt at this.

[MrkiMedo]

And one really bad thing is his recommendation to clean steel with hydrochloric acid. When I read that I gave up on the whole book.

sorry for my lack of knowledge, but what is wrong with pickling steel with hydrochloric acid?

[bencooper]

sorry for my lack of knowledge, but what is wrong with pickling steel with hydrochloric acid?

It can cause hydrogen embrittlement of the steel, leading to cracks.

[Mark Kelly]

And with many stainless steels it will cause chloride stress corrosion cracking.

[MrkiMedo]

It can cause hydrogen embrittlement of the steel, leading to cracks.

thanks!

[veryredbike]

Maaaaaan, now I'll have to use this drum of it I bought to dispose of bodies instead.

Edit: maybe I should pick a show not about serial killers for my next Netflix/Amazon binge.

[Dancingbear]

Personally, I've found the Paterek manual to be perfectly suited for modern frame fabrication...it props up the leg of my layout table at just the right height

Thanks for going where I was restraining myself from going atmo.

So now that we have gone there, who here is old enough to have had a copy of the Proteus Framebuilding Handbook? Wish I knew what happened to mine......
http://www.proteusbicycles.com/wp-co...mebuilding.pdf

[bencooper]

Yup, got that, and the Talbot book, both editions of Paterek, and a bunch of others. You can never have too much info.

[e-RICHIE]

So now that we have gone there, who here is old enough to have had a copy of the Proteus Framebuilding Handbook? Wish I knew what happened to mine......
http://www.proteusbicycles.com/wp-co...mebuilding.pdf

Well I remember sitting in the office at Witcomb USA and took the call when Larry Dean phoned to ask how we did stuff (meaning manufacturing, tooling, etc.) atmo.

[steve garro]

Well I remember sitting in the office at Witcomb USA and took the call when Larry Dean phoned to ask how we did stuff (meaning manufacturing, tooling, etc.) atmo.

So now that we have gone there, who here is old enough to have had a copy of the Proteus Framebuilding Handbook? Wish I knew what happened to mine......
http://www.proteusbicycles.com/wp-co...mebuilding.pdf

I worked for Professor Paul Proteus/Larry Dean.....
- Garro.

[e-RICHIE]

I worked for Professor Paul Proteus/Larry Dean.....
- Garro.

Hey nice job of using the multiple quote feature atmo.

[Eric Estlund]

Phew- from the thread title I was worried there was an actual catastrophe (missing a finger, crushing, burning or blowing something up, etc). Folding a down tube early in your learning curve isn't really a big deal. They are just pipes until they are a bike, and even then it's just bike. Head down- get back at it and chalk it up as a cheap learning experience.

[EricKeller]

I think I might have a copy of the Proteus manual sitting around. Someone did me a favor and stole my copy of Talbot's manual. I've never read Paterek, what I've read of his methods sounds, uh, idiosyncratic.

There was a nearly identical picture to the one in the OP posted on frameforum years back. You could have told me it was the same pic and I would have believed you

[e-RICHIE]

Phew- from the thread title I was worried there was an actual catastrophe (missing a finger, crushing, burning or blowing something up, etc). Folding a down tube early in your learning curve isn't really a big deal. They are just pipes until they are a bike, and even then it's just bike. Head down- get back at it and chalk it up as a cheap learning experience.

Well I took care of that atmo.

[steve garro]

Hey nice job of using the multiple quote feature atmo.

Not bad for a dumb-ass redneck framebuilder, huh?

Hey - I do my best.
- Garro.