Dealing with irresponsible journalists

[GSmith]

Looking for a little advice here. Sent out a mint bike to a publication for a non-test-ride "photo shoot". Recently got the bike back, packed worse than my 3 year old would do it, and with major paint damage in multiple areas. Doesn't look like crash damage, just looks like the bike was thrown around carelessly on multiple occasions.

The bummer is that it is a carbon tube/ti lug frame, which is a major PITA to re-paint, so... Wondering if any of you have had similar issues, and if so, what have you done about it? I'd have no problem if it had been a ride test/review, and shit happened out on the road, but this was a life-style pub, and a photo shoot only deal, and just obvious disrespect for the merch.

I'll admit I'm more than a little fed up with journos, since I've had multiple issues with review bikes disappearing and the effort expended to get them back. Just wondering if it is really worth it, and if any of you have found ways to crack the code on dealing with these folks.

[e-RICHIE]

Looking for a little advice here. Sent out a mint bike to a publication for a non-test-ride "photo shoot". Recently got the bike back, packed worse than my 3 year old would do it, and with major paint damage in multiple areas. Doesn't look like crash damage, just looks like the bike was thrown around carelessly on multiple occasions.

The bummer is that it is a carbon tube/ti lug frame, which is a major PITA to re-paint, so... Wondering if any of you have had similar issues, and if so, what have you done about it? I'd have no problem if it had been a ride test/review, and shit happened out on the road, but this was a life-style pub, and a photo shoot only deal, and just obvious disrespect for the merch.

I'll admit I'm more than a little fed up with journos, since I've had multiple issues with review bikes disappearing and the effort expended to get them back. Just wondering if it is really worth it, and if any of you have found ways to crack the code on dealing with these folks.

i have a bicycle from nahbs out in a similar venue, and i made it
well clear that not a fingerprint was on it and that's how i expected
it returned, no matter how much care and packing material was
needed. i'll know next week. if there is a mark, scratch, or chip,
i will be as upset as you seem to be here atmo.

[hampco]

i just got a bike back from a magazine; rhymes with "jellosnooze"

scratched/dented in the strangest places

maybe deduct it as advertising?

[e-RICHIE]

i just got a bike back from a magazine; rhymes with "jellosnooze"

scratched/dented in the strangest places

maybe deduct it as advertising?

no thoughts of accountability atmo?

[GSmith]

no thoughts of accountability atmo?

That's just it, you're damned if you do, out $ if you don't. Some of these guys seem to think that it's their birth right to get free shit, and if you say anything, they'll use the power of the pen against you. I actually had two journos that did a two day event on complete bikes that we provided, and they were put out that we wanted the bikes back afterwards! They genuinely thought that they should get to keep a $10K rig for riding it for two days and making a few blog posts.

We like the press as much as anyone, but I'm just wondering if anyone has found a way to hold these folks accountable. I don't know if the big dogs such as Trek et. al. just let these journos keep/use/abuse even their high end stuff, because it's just another widget spewing out of the supply chain machine, but it hurts us when were out the goods, and these guys don't seem to give a flip... it's just another bike.

Doesn't seem to be much integrity in this process.

[e-RICHIE]

That's just it, you're damned if you do, out $ if you don't. Some of these guys seem to think that it's their birth right to get free shit, and if you say anything, they'll use the power of the pen against you. I actually had two journos that did a two day event on complete bikes that we provided, and they were put out that we wanted the bikes back afterwards! They genuinely thought that they should get to keep a $10K rig for riding it for two days and making a few blog posts.

We like the press as much as anyone, but I'm just wondering if anyone has found a way to hold these folks accountable. I don't know if the big dogs such as Trek et. al. just let these journos keep/use/abuse even their high end stuff, because it's just another widget spewing out of the supply chain machine, but it hurts us when were out the goods, and these guys don't seem to give a flip... it's just another bike.

Doesn't seem to be much integrity in this process.

was it a photo op or a road test?
for the former, i only supply my own art files.
ps jeff weir fucikng rules atmo.

[GSmith]

was it a photo op or a road test?
for the former, i only supply my own art files.
ps jeff weir fucikng rules atmo.

It was supposed to be a photo shoot. This specific bike had previously gone to the same pub for a riding event, and was returned just fine. They asked for it back for a photo shoot for some special issue on stuff, and just trashed it this time around. Gouges on the TT, gouges under the chain stay... just bull shit handling. The packing job when they returned it may have just as well been a giant finger. There was trash in the bottom of the box. I think they thought it would provide cushioning.

[Dave Kirk]

My experience is limited to my Serotta years............. unfortunately it mirrors your experiences. They treat the bikes like crap and then toss them into a box and send it back without a care. I remember a Serotta coming back from Velorag that had the wrong wheels in it. They went out campy and came back Shimano and they denied knowing anything about it. Classy.

IMO it seems they they feel that they have you by the balls and that you won't make a fuss if you want a good review. In effect they feel we need them more than they need us.

I've lent one Kirk out and that was to Patrick Brady when he was Asphalt. I sent out a frameset only and it came back perfect. I was pleasantly surprised.

dave

[steve garro]

i have sent a bike to a mag & it came back fine. dirty {it was a MTB to dirtrag} and well ridden, BUT, well taken care of. they did chop the bars, but they gave me a good review so i was OK with that. *however* i have worked on photo shoots for several mags and i can tell you the bikes were abused {i personally would try to see what they were capable of} and then just stuffed in boxes. parts were switched, bikes were hucked into piles in trucks in between shoot locations........all that stuff. they got sent back with flats, blown shocks & trashed paint. they were all treated as disposable objects, even the cottage builder ones. Steve.

[Dazza]

was it a photo op or a road test?
for the former, i only supply my own art files.
ps jeff weir fucikng rules atmo.

and send one here?

[e-RICHIE]

can you clone him and send one here?

um no atmo.
sorry.

[suspectdevice]

I've been involved with getting bikes to magazines since the tender age of 15 or so. Bike journalism is a joke. I'm cool with that. Lots of my friends are or were employed as bike scribes or shooters. I had my hopes of the bike media being legit dashed before I ever screwed a girl or had a drink of booze.

The bike industry is a tight-knit collection of deadbeats and assholes;
If you can't speak so-cal bro-brah, postpunk or early nineties eastcoast hardcore, you aren't going to be able to really communicate with these knuckleheads on a "real" level...

I see a lot of folks who come from "real" industries get frustrated with working with people in the bike industry, as it is such a comparative shit-show compared to the real world.

We have 5 bikes in the hands of "media" right now for "reviews", 3 of the frames or completes are sold already to the editors who are "reviewing" them, one is staying for a raffle, and the other I sold to a shop owner in the country where the magazine is.

Let's not kid ourselves and pretend that bike reviews are anything but a joke. Some folks take it slightly more seriously than others, but all the media knows is what we tell them.

Print exposure, or other editorial exposure is super, duper important, I agree. Remember the media is full of bike geeks like us, except they get less respect, get paid like shit and are inherently disposable, as their magazines tend to just be filler to improve the print rates of their parent companies.... The only real way out of the bike media into a stable job in this silly industry is to hop the fence and take on a PR or marketing job for a mega-corp. The only way out with any self-respect is to leave the bike industry completely.

So, go easy on them man! These folks need our love.

[e-RICHIE]

So, go easy on them man! These folks need our love.

agreed atmo - but it doesn't take any longer to treat a bicycle nicely at a photo shoot than it does to manhandle it.
there's no excuse for wear and tear, or similar.

[suspectdevice]

agreed atmo - but it doesn't take any longer to treat a bicycle nicely at a photo shoot than it does to manhandle it.
there's no excuse for wear and tear, or similar.

Domestic Violence?

[e-RICHIE]

Domestic Violence?

it's the new black atmo.

[marten]

Looking for a little advice here. Sent out a mint bike to a publication for a non-test-ride "photo shoot". Recently got the bike back, packed worse than my 3 year old would do it, and with major paint damage in multiple areas. Doesn't look like crash damage, just looks like the bike was thrown around carelessly on multiple occasions....

Do you need magazines or do they need you?

1) bikemagazines are like pr0nmags. Lots of people looking at pictures, but are they the buying public.? More important are they your buying public?

2) It's no problem for a publication to fill the backpages of the adverts with tests of the stuff on the other side. To retain some credibility with the subscribers they will also need to publish on some interesting non mainstream stuff.

With internet, discussionlists and satisfied customers spreading the word i'm doing fine. I've had stuff in magazines occasionally, but the effect is pretty minimal mostly. (you won't sell much, but if they write something silly it won't hurt either ;) )

/Marten

[steve garro]

The bike industry is a tight-knit collection of deadbeats and assholes;
If you can't speak so-cal bro-brah, postpunk or early nineties eastcoast hardcore, you aren't going to be able to really communicate with these knuckleheads on a "real" level...

damn, we work in different industries, and i'm glad for it. sounds like your industry sucks to be in - seriously. all the people i deal with on a daily basis are really nice folks. maybe you see this end of the spectrum because of the fact that you are on the lowball end of the price range & get the clientel associated with those that seek the cheapest/now, or maybe it's the fixie/fakenger - dirtjump crowd? i dunno. i only buy materials/spec parts from people/companies that i consider to be professional..........Steve.

[GSmith]

I didn't mean to start a discourse on the collective integrity of the bike industry, and I'm grateful for the postings and PM's that have come forth. Clearly I'm frustrated with the bike journo world, and based on the responses, my experiences don't seem to be unusual, and that's a bit sad IMO.

It's good for all of us to have the craft publicized and the awareness of handmade, high quality cycling products elevated amongst the general public (see Drew's (Engin) coverage in this month's Men's Journal piece on custom stuff as a great example), but given my experience in other industries, the bike journo world is a notch below on the integrity meter.

It's always dangerous to paint with a broad brush, but Mickey's commentary, however inflammatory in his own inimitable manner, rings too true to many of my experiences thus far in the cycling "industry". Garro's retort is equally true... there are many wonderful, high integrity folks in all corners of this business. I just wish there were a few more on the journalistic side of the equation.

[Zimmermanbicycle]

Back to the original post,if it's a velo related rag and they are reviewing your goods it may be tough to get them to treat it well, however if it's for a shoot for a lifestyle mag and your bike is essentialy a prop they usually carry insurance for this sort of situation and you should expect it returned as you sent it out.
I work on both sides,I build frames and I shoot and we always have insurance.
Ask for a certificate of insurance for your stuff it doesn't cost them anything since they are already carrying it for equipment/location and prop rentals
they should be used to and willing to provide it.
-Eric Z

[GSmith]

Follow up to the OP. So we contact the pub that damaged the bike and politely inquire about what happened to it. Their story? They received it that way! However, they did apologize for packing it like a piece of junk when they returned it.

Live and learn... a cost of doing business.