Early Retirement Discussion

[jclay]

I retired at 60. Glad I did, zero regrets.

My work in the environmental remediation field was rewarding (even though we humans keep working to wreck the biosphere) but I am ecstatic to own my own time/life now. We don't live an expensive lifestyle but give up nothing important to us. I think the securities market has been in a bubble for ages and am amazed that it keeps going...yet it does (I wish I could talk to Benjamin Graham); house paid off last century so short of the "airframe of state" coming unglued (which we might manage to do) we'll just happily putter into oblivion. I've taken up the drums and electric bass, enjoy regular life with my spouse, visit my buddies down in the coastal swamp area, talk, drink, cruise small rivers, talk about old times and some remarkably stupid things we did, plan new (mostly local) adventures, try new dishes in the kitchen, watch the wildlife out here.

If all is set and you've got things you want to do I recommend it!

[Saab2000]

If all is set and you've got things you want to do I recommend it!

The question is “if all is set”. I’m definitely ready but with so much volatility and it being caused by what’s happening in DC I’d hate to see what I’ve worked for come undone. And not just me. Tens of millions of Americans’ retirements depend on stock market health.

[suspectdevice]

Retirement won’t ever be a option for me, but i made a very conscious decision to “stop working” full time ten years ago at 34 when I stopped trying to run a bike brand.

I cut all of my fixed expenses. My only monthly payment is my car insurance. Anything I can barter for(home rent, Honda parts, space to work on bikes, new bikes and bike parts), i barter for. I still work for, at least in 2024, 2x W2 employers, 3x 1099’s, a partnership in an LLC and under a “handy man license”… but making sure nobody owns me Full Time is vital for my mental and physical well being. I have been trying to keep my billable work around 40 hours per month, and finally found the right niche in trail design and building to make that much work, work.

As my mom’s dementia has progressed over the last few years I have made the decision to spend as much time with her as possible to try to take some of the burden off my dad.
If i was employed full time- i would not be able to do this vital, unpaid labor.


Mom is 82 and has been retired for under 5 years.
Dad is 75 and still works full time as an accountant and financial planner.
They were on the road to a comfortable retirement before corporate raiders destroyed the textile industry in New England and forced our family to move 6 times from mill town to mill town during the early 90’s recession and liquidate all savings and investments to survive.

The equity my parents lost in those home sales that happened during the recession, even 30 years later, they haven’t recovered from.

The home they “own” now has appreciated massively since purchased(by 5 times!), but interest rates, refi’s and HELOC shenanigans they needed to survive during subsequent recessions means that if my parents were to sell now, once the note is paid off, they would clear very little money, like enough to buy 2 fancy watches.

I guess my point is… be rich in experiences, and be very cautious i this absolutely INSANE new reality we live in.

[einreb]

The question is “if all is set”.

I'm a couple years younger and coming from a different line of work, but in a similar boat. (also in western 'burbs!)

I've read a good bit, done research, and talked with others to try to have a tool box of planning for this. I've come to the conclusion that there are a bunch of different approaches to planning (or not planning!) depending on the person and certainly not 'one way' to figure this out. Some general thoughts below:

Advice - Lots of different advice routes available. You can certainly get free advice from Schwab. They have other more involved paid advice, etc. I do think that for some folks, paying some % is something that may work for them. My only real cringe is going to somebody that you pay % and then they put you into some other higher fee funds, etc. Tons of books, forums etc if that sort of thing resonates. This is not rocket surgery.

Expenses - Other than understanding your current assets which people tend to focus on... its tough to understand if you can afford to retire without having a sense of what your expenses will be. This shifts over time. i.e. pre-medicare and needing to have health insurance if its not a retirement benefit. This is a solvable problem and depending on your retirement income may be surprisingly affordable with subsidies. Maybe some expense reduction in 70's as you slow down a bit? etc.

Drawdown - I hear 'early retirement' and think pre-social security and pre Medicare. So income will pull in a few different phases. First phase is pre social security where you will be drawing down from savings or from interest/dividend income (assuming no pension). Then SS kicks in. Then mandatory 401k/IRA distributions.

Complexities - Lots of variations on how to approach draw down, take advantage of tax brackets, maybe roth conversions, etc. It can be overwhelming. There are some pretty cool online tools now (some free some paid) that allow for forecasting this out and 'what if' scenarios if you like to play around with that sort of thing.

Other - The other think I see come up often is the non-financial aspect. What are you going to do with your time? Some struggle with finding a purpose or tribe.

Start Simple - Personally, I think the main focus for early retirement planning is understanding expected expenses and having a sufficient pile of low risk assets that can carry you through a historical bear or flat period for that pre-social security/medicare phase.

[Bob Ross]

I've taken up the drums and electric bass

Slight Digression: Former fulltime professional bass player here, but I also played drums when I was in high school and college (so, >40 years ago). One thing the missus and I have spoken about as we look to find our "forever" retirement house -- the current apartment is way too small! -- is a dedicated music room where I can rehearse or jam with other musicians. As an aside, I happened to mention the practicality of keeping a drumkit in said hypothetical music room; my wife's eyes lit up and she said "Now that we're retired, maybe I'll learn to play the drums!"

I've never been so happy in my life. :)

[Mark Walberg]

As an aside, I happened to mention the practicality of keeping a drumkit in said hypothetical music room; my wife's eyes lit up and she said "Now that we're retired, maybe I'll learn to play the drums!"

I've never been so happy in my life. :)

You, sir, are a lucky may indeed !

My wife says, "You can only play your trumpet once a day !"

[72gmc]

+1, that’s good stuff to read on a Saturday morning, Bob.

[Marvinlungwitz]

Grants are disappearing daily, so my retirement will likely come sooner than expected.

I’m still pleased with the move, however. We made the choice looking at the long run.

[bigbill]

It was mentioned above about finding your tribe, finding a purpose after you've left the work force. I did a second MA and I'm working with the county library to teach some history classes. I thought about adjunct faculty but that seems like real work. I've written some history essays concerning the Apsaalooke (Crow) Nation which I am editing to add more detail and footnotes before they are archived at Little Big Horn College at the Crow Agency. I found my place in research and presenting papers at history conferences, my next step is getting the essays published in history journals. I challenge accepted history and under researched topics which means I have to be very thorough on my research because folks will disagree with me. I started with the Civil Rights Movement but Native American History is my passion, but the field is huge, much like saying I'm studying Europe as if it was a homogeneous culture. The goal is the incorporation of Native history into American History instead of holding it at arm's length away from mainstream history.

This is much more interesting than nuclear engineering.

[Saab2000]

It was mentioned above about finding your tribe, finding a purpose after you've left the work force. I did a second MA and I'm working with the county library to teach some history classes. I thought about adjunct faculty but that seems like real work. I've written some history essays concerning the Apsaalooke (Crow) Nation which I am editing to add more detail and footnotes before they are archived at Little Big Horn College at the Crow Agency. I found my place in research and presenting papers at history conferences, my next step is getting the essays published in history journals. I challenge accepted history and under researched topics which means I have to be very thorough on my

research because folks will disagree with me. I started with the Civil Rights Movement but Native American History is my passion, but the field is huge, much like saying I'm studying Europe as if it was a homogeneous culture. The goal is the incorporation of Native history into American History instead of holding it at arm's length away from mainstream history.

This is much more interesting than nuclear engineering.

There is nothing more interesting than the study of how elements decay and how to regulate that to capture energy. Because we don’t create it, we just change states of matter. I follow a YT channel called Periodic Videos, by the chemistry department of Nottingham University. The professor has visited Oak Ridge Labs I believe and talks about various radioactive elements, etc. Definitely high level nerd content!

My tribe are my friends and family. I had a bit of a taste of retirement when the pandemic hit because I had the opportunity to take 13 months off work, with no alarm and no schedule. It was great! I rode 10,000 miles and got into pretty decent shape. I rode a bunch of cycling events and hung out with family and friends as possible by the limitations of the time.

But yeah, everyone’s gotta have a purpose to avoid wasting away. I think I’ll be able to fill my time. I got called into work at 3:35 AM this morning. That is wearying. At least we flew away from the weather instead of towards it.

[fastupslowdown]

This conversation is so relevant. It's something I"m actively thinking about. What's holding me back is fear about access to medications. Insurance companies give me a hard time with the brand name and my experience is the generic doesn't work(at least for me). I know i'll have to bite the bullet sooner or later.

[fastupslowdown]

Dealing with this issue too. Mom has Alzheimers. Didn't let me get her medicare ready. I started 4.5 years ago but wasn't aggressive enough in the moves. Now she's stage 6-7 and its getting worse. The care is very expensive.

[fastupslowdown]

The question is “if all is set”. I’m definitely ready but with so much volatility and it being caused by what’s happening in DC I’d hate to see what I’ve worked for come undone. And not just me. Tens of millions of Americans’ retirements depend on stock market health.

Not sure why, might be that i'm the son of a holocaust survivor or maybe i've read too many stock market crash books back as an undergrad, but I've shifted quite a bit from stocks in my retirement portfolio. The old rule of keeping 100 minus your age invested in equities seemed prudent and frankly it helps me sleep at night

[Saab2000]

Not sure why, might be that i'm the son of a holocaust survivor or maybe i've read too many stock market crash books back as an undergrad, but I've shifted quite a bit from stocks in my retirement portfolio. The old rule of keeping 100 minus your age invested in equities seemed prudent and frankly it helps me sleep at night

I’m currently working in that direction. Hadn’t heard of that rule of thumb but it likely is pretty solid.

[ldamelio]

Bear in mind that the 100 - age rule dates back to a time when life expectancy was much lower. And presumably, as Salonistas, we are healthier than the average bear. Most of us hopefully will still be dragging our butts around on steel bikes with rim brakes well into our 80's and 90's.

Putting aside the valid concerns regarding the present administration, a 100 - age asset allocation historically leaves a ton of money on the table over the long haul.

At this point, better rules of thumb (still very cautious) are:

1) 3 - 4 years living expenses in cash or cash equivalents (high yield savings, CDs, short term bonds, money market)

2) an additional 2 - 3 years in intermediate term bonds

3) the rest in equities. Value and dividend stocks and funds to be conservative; lots of ways to get better yields if you are OK adding some risk.

[bigbill]

Dealing with this issue too. Mom has Alzheimers. Didn't let me get her medicare ready. I started 4.5 years ago but wasn't aggressive enough in the moves. Now she's stage 6-7 and its getting worse. The care is very expensive.

My father died last summer at 84. He and his wife lived on social security and owned their townhouse and a vehicle in Sun City, AZ. My father had dementia that was getting worse and we were looking at long term care. I'm not about the laws where you live, but since my father had few assets, he would have dual qualified for Medicare and Medicaid. The state (AZ) could not touch the house or vehicle for medical bills. The state would take his social security while he was in a facility, but not all of it, his wife was guaranteed a certain amount. A loved one in a care facility doesn't necessarily have to hurt the family financially. We had it all set up for my dad, but his health rapidly declined and he died in home hospice.

[suspectdevice]

With my mom and her dementia- my dad regrets that he didn’t convince her to buy long term care insurance years ago.
I remember the arguments from when i was in middle school. She said “shoot me in the head if i ever need that”. Repeatedly.

The reality in 2025: The house is worth too much, on paper for any deals on long term care, even though she skidded into retirement with zero assets in her personal bank account.

Both parents have been self-employed since we left Maine in ‘92, so it was up to them to do all their own planning. While my dad was attending financial planning seminars and certifying fiduciary responsibility for clients,
She was running half marathons right up to her first diagnosis of dementia- and spent the last 30 years bragging about how young she felt.
Sometimes you can’t fix pride.

[bigbill]

With my mom and her dementia- my dad regrets that he didn’t convince her to buy long term care insurance years ago.
I remember the arguments from when i was in middle school. She said “shoot me in the head if i ever need that”. Repeatedly.

The reality in 2025: The house is worth too much, on paper for any deals on long term care, even though she skidded into retirement with zero assets in her personal bank account.

Both parents have been self-employed since we left Maine in ‘92, so it was up to them to do all their own planning. While my dad was attending financial planning seminars and certifying fiduciary responsibility for clients,
She was running half marathons right up to her first diagnosis of dementia- and spent the last 30 years bragging about how young she felt.
Sometimes you can’t fix pride.

Does the value of the home matter? Typically, Medicaid says you can keep your home and vehicle. If you have other property, that will likely be sold to pay for care. My wife's parents had their farm in Wyoming and a small house in Arizona. They sold the property in Wyoming when my MIL was no longer able to care for herself with her Parkinson's. The proceeds of that sale were used to pay her expenses ($7k/month) until it was exhausted, then she would go on Medicaid in addition to her Medicare. The house in Arizona was exempt since the surviving spouse needed a place to live, regardless of location. She died with two months of savings remaining and never went on Medicaid.

With my dad, my older sister and her husband kept bringing up reverse mortgage, and my younger sister and I kept vehemently disagreeing. There's no need if it's your only home. After my father died, his wife sold their AZ home and moved to the east coast with money she made off the house. It should take care of her for the rest of her life in addition to her social security.