The direction of society lately

[72gmc]

It’s well past time for Chuck’s party to find a challenger for his seat. There will be no reciprocal good faith. He is seeing things through magic glasses that look back to a time when the opposition respected the institution.

[gregl]

It’s well past time for Chuck’s party to find a challenger for his seat. There will be no reciprocal good faith. He is seeing things through magic glasses that look back to a time when the opposition respected the institution.

I'm not a fan of, or apologist for, Chuck. I think he's well aware there's zero good faith from his colleagues across the aisle. My $0.02 is that he feels he can gain more while fighting within a "working" government than trying to fight within a government that is shut down (and possibly ripe for more illegalities from Trump and Musk). He's choosing how to fight the fight. Whether this amounts to Chamberlain in 1938 is for history to determine.

Greg

[72gmc]

The illegalities are going to happen no matter how he votes. That’s the advantage of being willing to break the law, and they are showing us how willing they are. A yes vote indicates he’s still seeing this as a rim brake vs disc brake scenario when it’s a bicycle vs out-of-control cybertruck scenario.

[j44ke]

The illegalities are going to happen no matter how he votes. That’s the advantage of being willing to break the law, and they are showing us how willing they are. A yes vote indicates he’s still seeing this as a rim brake vs disc brake scenario when it’s a bicycle vs out-of-control cybertruck scenario.

The discussion is more about whether or not this is a Reichstag moment. Schumer is among those who feel like the Democrats were being baited into shutting the government down, and that what is currently illegal then would be made legal in response.

Consider why Trump is pushing SCOTUS to fast track their decision on birthright citizenship. Many people still naively think that it is about immigration.

[bcm119]

I'm not a fan of, or apologist for, Chuck. I think he's well aware there's zero good faith from his colleagues across the aisle. My $0.02 is that he feels he can gain more while fighting within a "working" government than trying to fight within a government that is shut down (and possibly ripe for more illegalities from Trump and Musk). He's choosing how to fight the fight. Whether this amounts to Chamberlain in 1938 is for history to determine.

Greg

I reluctantly agree with Schumer's caving. As a federal employee, I may be biased. But there is an arcane rule (that afaik has never been exercised before, which means nothing now) allowing the executive branch to RIF any employees who've been in furlough status for more than 30 days. During a shutdown, that's about a third of government. That would be catastrophic, and likely a worse outcome than whatever they can do while government is open. It also explains why Musk is gunning for a shutdown, per multiple sources.

[suspectdevice]

I hate both parties, and i hate CR’s more. But yeah, we needed this one “ just in case”.

If Schumer uses this moment to step back and allow someone born after 1950 to take control of the caucus, it would be grrrreat, but it’s pretty clear that the democrats are afraid of all their memebers that were born after Regan got elected.

The fact that the most popular politician in america is ancient (still feeling the Bern over here), and is out trying, desperately, to move the needle to preserve The System is so dang cute, but the only way out of this problem we are all in is… a little bit too extreme for my favorite Senator.

[echappist]

The discussion is more about whether or not this is a Reichstag moment. Schumer is among those who feel like the Democrats were being baited into shutting the government down, and that what is currently illegal then would be made legal in response.

Consider why Trump is pushing SCOTUS to fast track their decision on birthright citizenship. Many people still naively think that it is about immigration.

Could you dig into this aspect a bit? Is it about disenfranchising (b/c no citizenship means no vote) or is it something even more sinister?

[echappist]

I reluctantly agree with Schumer's caving. As a federal employee, I may be biased. But there is an arcane rule (that afaik has never been exercised before, which means nothing now) allowing the executive branch to RIF any employees who've been in furlough status for more than 30 days. During a shutdown, that's about a third of government. That would be catastrophic, and likely a worse outcome than whatever they can do while government is open. It also explains why Musk is gunning for a shutdown, per multiple sources.

Thanks for bringing this up. I was completely unaware of it.

[72gmc]

I reluctantly agree with Schumer's caving. As a federal employee, I may be biased. But there is an arcane rule (that afaik has never been exercised before, which means nothing now) allowing the executive branch to RIF any employees who've been in furlough status for more than 30 days. During a shutdown, that's about a third of government. That would be catastrophic, and likely a worse outcome than whatever they can do while government is open. It also explains why Musk is gunning for a shutdown, per multiple sources.

Thank you for sharing this perspective (you too Jorn and GregL)

[j44ke]

Could you dig into this aspect a bit? Is it about disenfranchising (b/c no citizenship means no vote) or is it something even more sinister?

Potentially it is part of a stair step process for weakening citizenship as a whole and making it subject to the judgement of a government rather than something an individual's birth guarantees. It is a classic move. You begin with punitive measures directed at the liminal groups or special cases where public support is strong and then move from there to widen the scope of enforcement through an if-X-then-Y process until the public as a whole is subject to the government's definition. If the government - with the courts' blessings - controls the definition, then they can make anyone not-a-citizen. It doesn't matter who the person is or where they came from. Whatever the government says goes. So it isn't about immigration as much as it is power and control. Immigration is just a small part of the whole.

[rccardr]

This.

Also, consider that Schumer’s willingness to publicly announce his vote for the CR (and why) along with a mere handful of other Dems, allowed the rest of the senators in their party to (also publicly, see Warnock’s statement to Georgia voters as an example) vote against it. Something that may help them in their next election cycle.

It’s a long game. Devious sometimes requires deviation.

[echappist]

This.

Also, consider that Schumer’s willingness to publicly announce his vote for the CR (and why) along with a mere handful of other Dems, allowed the rest of the senators in their party to (also publicly, see Warnock’s statement to Georgia voters as an example) vote against it. Something that may help them in their next election cycle.

It’s a long game. Devious sometimes requires deviation.

I just hope that they are indeed thinking ahead.

It's only two-month in, and we've already seen a lot of tumult.