User Tag List

Results 1 to 14 of 14

Thread: Stainless fillet question

  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Canada eh
    Posts
    773
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Stainless fillet question

    This is kinda OTÖ The boiler on my Breville DB is basically cracked - it has grown just slightly ďporousĒ near a roll in the metal, and it leaks. Possibly the stupidest failure Iíve ever seen in an espresso machine, compounded by the fact that a) I love this machine and b) Breville doesnít sell spare parts.

    Iíve concluded the thing to do is to lay a fat fillet right over the affected section. Itís too thin and weirdly shaped to weld effectively (and I canít weld). But itís thicker than a bike tube, so I think laying a fillet on it shouldnít be too hard.

    Can anyone recommend a product to use? (Or alternative approach?) I need something that doesnít require more heat than propane (or MAPP) can provide, and which doesnít contain lead, nickel, cadmium, etc. And the machine is such a nightmare to dissemble and reassemble that I need it to work the first time, even with my minimal skillsÖ 😜

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Rochester, NY
    Posts
    985
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Stainless fillet question

    I wonder if an epoxy patch would work and avoid the need to braze. I don't do coffee and don't know how hot or how much pressure is at play here.

    I next think of the silver fillers available, including some that the food industry use for their SS devices. IIRC BAg-5 at 45% silver is an example. Unsure as to its liking being filleted, I do know that 56% silver can get internal cracks in attempted fillets due to cooling contraction stresses that other fillers don't have.

    I assume that the boiler's insides are able to be flushed with hot water before using for human consumption, you'd really want to dissolve away any flux.

    I strongly suggest practicing on the same alloy if at all possible with the filler(s) of choice. SS reacts differently to torch heat then steel does and you say you have one shot... Andy
    Andy Stewart
    10%

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Beechworth, VIC
    Posts
    2,528
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    9 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Stainless fillet question

    BDBs are notoriously unreliable with no available spare parts so dead ones are very easy to find: check the "Pay it Forward" section of any coffee forum.

    The common faults are things like O rings leaking and triacs failing so it shouldn't be hard to find one with an intact boiler.

    No, epoxy won't work. If you want to destroy an epoxy bond you expose it to cyclical high temperature and moisture.
    Mark Kelly

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Flagstaff, Arizona
    Posts
    11,163
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    11 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Stainless fillet question

    Quote Originally Posted by Applesauce View Post
    This is kinda OT… The boiler on my Breville DB is basically cracked - it has grown just slightly “porous” near a roll in the metal, and it leaks. Possibly the stupidest failure I’ve ever seen in an espresso machine, compounded by the fact that a) I love this machine and b) Breville doesn’t sell spare parts.

    I’ve concluded the thing to do is to lay a fat fillet right over the affected section. It’s too thin and weirdly shaped to weld effectively (and I can’t weld). But it’s thicker than a bike tube, so I think laying a fillet on it shouldn’t be too hard.

    Can anyone recommend a product to use? (Or alternative approach?) I need something that doesn’t require more heat than propane (or MAPP) can provide, and which doesn’t contain lead, nickel, cadmium, etc. And the machine is such a nightmare to dissemble and reassemble that I need it to work the first time, even with my minimal skills… ��
    Yeah, I know what you need to do.
    Use 50N, it's both excellent for stainless and it's used for food grade items - I fixed my slightly different coffee maker last week in a few minutes - it builds a fillet just fine, I use it for stainless dropouts with a lot of fill for a large plug in the stay so it's a little more stick around and less flow away if that makes sense.

    This alloy:

    https://www.gasflux.com/wp-content/u...VER-BAg-24.pdf

    I'd be glad to help but you are a little far away and over a border

    - Garro.

    IMG_4004.jpg
    Last edited by steve garro; 04-07-2024 at 11:27 AM.
    Steve Garro, Coconino Cycles.
    Frames & Bicycles built to measure and Custom wheels
    Hecho en Flagstaff, Arizona desde 2003
    www.coconinocycles.com
    www.coconinocycles.blogspot.com

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    In da Montana Rockies
    Posts
    1,958
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Stainless fillet question

    Leave it to the Garro to figure out all things fillet and fix the coffee machine. Tip o da hat to you Steevo, I am impressed.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Canada eh
    Posts
    773
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Stainless fillet question

    Quote Originally Posted by steve garro View Post
    Yeah, I know what you need to do.
    Use 50N, it's both excellent for stainless and it's used for food grade items
    Thanks Steve! That is exactly the kind of advice I was looking for. Can I use a Harris ď50NĒ product? Are alloys standardized? It doesnít look like I can get the Gasflux in Canada. (Although Iíll be in Denver this weekÖmaybe Iíll look there.)

    What would you use for flux? I canít reliably clean the inside of the boiler, as the ports are too small. I can fill and soak it obviously.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Rochester, NY
    Posts
    985
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Stainless fillet question

    Where in Canada are you? I'm about an hour+ from the boarder at Buffalo/Peace Bridge. I've helped out others by meeting them there and handing off the stuff.

    https://www.bikefabsupply.com/flux sells the Gasflux brand and they claim to ship to Canada. Andy
    Andy Stewart
    10%

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Flagstaff, Arizona
    Posts
    11,163
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    11 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Stainless fillet question

    Quote Originally Posted by Applesauce View Post
    Thanks Steve! That is exactly the kind of advice I was looking for. Can I use a Harris “50N” product? Are alloys standardized? It doesn’t look like I can get the Gasflux in Canada. (Although I’ll be in Denver this week…maybe I’ll look there.)

    What would you use for flux? I can’t reliably clean the inside of the boiler, as the ports are too small. I can fill and soak it obviously.
    Here's the makeup:


    Chemical Composition of Ag-50 (BAg-24) Cu Ag Zinc Nickel Other
    20% 50% 28% 2% .15%


    But I bet it's right in line as the same alloy, one troy ounce should be sufficient, you can show me the issue I may have a better idea but one TO is a bunch - you also need flux, type "U" is what you want, a pound is a ton but with your one TO of alloy you will be prepared for future issues, maybe get it shipped to you destination in CO?

    https://www.gasflux.com/catalog/past...-u-paste-flux/

    Yeah, I'd take some boiling water and soak it overnight, it knocks of the flux in <10min but just to be sure, then maybe run a dummy run to flush it out.
    Glad to help !

    "Soy Manoso"

    - Garro.
    Last edited by steve garro; 04-08-2024 at 10:50 AM.
    Steve Garro, Coconino Cycles.
    Frames & Bicycles built to measure and Custom wheels
    Hecho en Flagstaff, Arizona desde 2003
    www.coconinocycles.com
    www.coconinocycles.blogspot.com

  9. #9
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Canada eh
    Posts
    773
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Stainless fillet question

    Yeah, Iíll just have it shipped to my destination in Denver. Should arrive pretty quick from Phoenix!

    I started a plumbing apprenticeship a couple months ago, and today I have a whole day of soldering shower valves. Good chance to brush up on my torch work!

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Flagstaff, Arizona
    Posts
    11,163
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    11 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Stainless fillet question

    Quote Originally Posted by Applesauce View Post
    Yeah, Iíll just have it shipped to my destination in Denver. Should arrive pretty quick from Phoenix!

    I started a plumbing apprenticeship a couple months ago, and today I have a whole day of soldering shower valves. Good chance to brush up on my torch work!
    Totally !

    Heat the thick part !

    Let us know how it goes

    - Garro.
    Last edited by steve garro; 04-08-2024 at 03:19 PM.
    Steve Garro, Coconino Cycles.
    Frames & Bicycles built to measure and Custom wheels
    Hecho en Flagstaff, Arizona desde 2003
    www.coconinocycles.com
    www.coconinocycles.blogspot.com

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Hillsdale NY
    Posts
    25,646
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    74 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Stainless fillet question

    My experience with espresso machine boilers is that the corrosion outside comes from inside, so any repair you do outside is usually building on a shaky foundation. I've replaced boilers in Saeco and Delonghi super-automatics, and it isn't hard but it is more successful - especially when the boiler is some sort of bi-metal contraption of stainless and aluminum. I can't imagine the Breville line to be that much more complex than a super-automatic.

    https://www.ereplacementparts.com/br...52_116055.html
    Jorn Ake
    poet

    Flickr
    Books

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Scotland
    Posts
    426
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Stainless fillet question

    I'll echo j44ke here. I've done a lot of that sort of thing and I'll also wager the corrosion is way worse on the inside. I'm not saying don't try it but be prepared for it to fail. They're good machines generally but not really user serviceable for the average person so they do appear on ebay etc fairly often over here as 'broken'. I'd attempt to track down a replacement boiler before doing a repair if I were you.
    Steven Shand
    www.willowbike.com
    Handbuilt Bicycles - Scotland, UK

  13. #13
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Canada eh
    Posts
    773
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Stainless fillet question

    I understand the impulse to say, ďthose machines suck, just replace the boilerĒ, etc. The reality is, this machine is eight years old and has had fewer issues than any La Marzocco, Rocket, Gaggia, or La Pavoni Iíve ever owned or serviced. The pumps and solenoids are common items. The o-rings and hoses are all standard. I donít bother with the stock descale cycle because itís a pain in the arse, but so far I havenít seen any issues with the electronics. So to the haters, maybe get some hands-on time before you write off my machine. Iíve worked on a $30k La Marzocco, an $10k Rocket, and lord knows Iíve worked on this BrevilleÖIíve seen lotsa sides.

    I wouldíve ordered a new boiler and replaced it last time I had it apart if that were an option. Itís not. I donít know why this boiler has failed like this, but itís not because of corrosion. This machine is spotless, well cared for, and our tap water is second-to-none. It failed because of shoddy manufacturing, and I think attempting to repair the boiler I have is a better option than replacing it with someone elseís unknown quantity. Worst case scenario, I have a boiler that leaks same as it does now! Plus I kinda appreciate the challengeÖ

    Iím not Steve Garro or Eric Baar with a torch, but I also wasnít born yesterday. It has been twenty years since I soldered a bike frame, and Iíve never built a fillet on stainless. But Iím about to learn!

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Northwest AZ
    Posts
    6,077
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    19 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Stainless fillet question

    Coming in from left field here. If the repair is out of sight, have you considered JB WaterWeld epoxy? It can handle high pressure and up to 250F. I carry it in the travel trailer in case I need to fix something with the fresh water system. I got it to stick on a small crack in my water tank while it was still actively leaking and a year later, it's all good. You can fill the crack and sand it down as well.
    https://www.jbweld.com/product/waterweld-epoxy-putty
    Retired Sailor, Marine dad, semi-professional cyclist, fly fisherman, and Indian School STEM teacher.
    Assistant Operating Officer at Farm Soap homemade soaps. www.farmsoap.com

Similar Threads

  1. Yet another fillet brazing question
    By Nic in forum The Frame Forum@VSalon
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 12-22-2016, 08:35 PM
  2. Fillet brazing sequence question for a newb
    By bikecycology in forum The Frame Forum@VSalon
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 01-30-2015, 12:59 PM
  3. Fillet Brazing Practice Question
    By Mtblucas in forum The Frame Forum@VSalon
    Replies: 29
    Last Post: 09-27-2013, 09:21 AM
  4. A fillet brazed stainless bike, unpainted?
    By jimcav in forum The Frame Forum@VSalon
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 09-01-2012, 01:12 AM

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •