Ukraine

[robin3mj]

With all that's happening, this is how you choose to add to this thread? Hard proof that TDS has yet to be cured.

Fact: Putin did not invade while Trump was President. For whatever reason, for whatever jokes you want to make, it's still a fact.

Can you simply stop now? Truce?

Trump was a (very) useful idiot for Putin for a number of years which obviated his need to attack Ukraine.

Also you can tell the seriousness of people on this forum by the balance between their political topics and actually getting out and riding their bicycles.

Go figure.

[BBB]

With all that's happening, this is how you choose to add to this thread? Hard proof that TDS has yet to be cured.

Fact: Putin did not invade while Trump was President. For whatever reason, for whatever jokes you want to make, it's still a fact.

Can you simply stop now? Truce?

I have commented on some issues in this thread, which you can easily find above.

And now I won't stop when it comes to Trump. The man is a disgrace.

[jclay]

And now I won't stop when it comes to Trump. The man is a disgrace.

You're being overly polite.

I may have enormous problems with the neo-liberal wing of the Democratic Party and what I believe are often de-stabilizing, hypocritical, ill considered and sometimes illegal US foreign policies & actions, but Trump and today's GOP constitute a stage 4 cancer of our democratic framework and civil society; and he is certainly a welcome stooge to Putin and Jinping.

The current object lesson on the utility of holding the world hostage via the threat of nuclear war is surely not being lost on China, re Taiwan.

And as all this is rumbling merrily along, humanity continues taking axes to the spaceship we call Earth. It is truly mind boggling.

[Marvinlungwitz]

“In my country and in Belgium everything is opening again. We’re free. Over there the people are afraid. I’m happy to be racing here but my mind and my prayers are with the people in Ukraine. Here it’s about 25-year-old guys fighting for the win but over there the 25-year-old guys are fighting for freedom in their life. It put things in perspective.”

- Fabio Jakobsen

[Marvinlungwitz]

And now I won't stop when it comes to Trump. The man is a disgrace.

As we read over the weekend, even Bill Barr, who threw him a lifeline, agrees with you.

And it’s not like Trump isn’t trying to keep himself at the forefront of all political discourse. He’s made himself fair game. (I’m sure he’s aware a second presidency, which appears to be a real possibility, is the best way to protect himself from prosecution).

[Marvinlungwitz]

The Russians have more chess grandmasters than about anyone. I will never underestimate them, since my laptop beats me consistently at beginners level.

He may still win the game, the Russians have Kyiv surrounded.

But the cost and self inflicted damage seem unnecessarily high.

[Corso]

I have commented on some issues in this thread, which you can easily find above.

And now I won't stop when it comes to Trump. The man is a disgrace.

Well I tried.

We all wish for the World to play nice, but some can't even agree to put aside a (side topic) on this forum.

Let me remind anyone who doesn't live, pay taxes or vote in the United States of America: The President of the United States is Joseph Biden.

If you must, continue with your hate obsession. It doesn't solve anything.

[zachateseverything]

Well I tried.

We all wish for the World to play nice, but some can't even agree to put aside a (side topic) on this forum.

Let me remind anyone who doesn't live, pay taxes or vote in the United States of America: The President of the United States is Joseph Biden.

If you must, continue with your hate obsession. It doesn't solve anything.

While Joseph Biden is indeed the current president of the United States, the foreign policy decisions of the Trump presidency had direct and lasting impacts on this crisis. He made every attempt to fracture NATO and attempted to withhold military aide from the Ukraine in exchange for a political favor. Given that Trump himself is still commenting on this crisis, it should be fair game to discuss him in the thread.

Or do you need a safe space?

[Corso]

While Joseph Biden is indeed the current president of the United States, the foreign policy decisions of the Trump presidency had direct and lasting impacts on this crisis. He made every attempt to fracture NATO and attempted to withhold military aide from the Ukraine in exchange for a political favor. Given that Trump himself is still commenting on this crisis, it should be fair game to discuss him in the thread.

Or do you need a safe space?

You certainly have the right for the above opinion. If the "Trump/Russia" fantasy keeps you going, ok. IMO, it's simply venting, again and again.

Keep looking to the past, and not the present for someone to blame, if that's your own "safe space".

I find it amusing that there have been more postings about Trump (than Biden) on this thread alone, even though President Biden has been a disaster for a year--but for some reason, most have gone mute on him. Even our international friends. Much as expected.

Back to the real topic- hopefully current negotiations ends the violence - NOW.

Speaking of international- I hope the UN emergency meeting is for real and not for show. They always appear to say the right thing, but not so much in hard action.

[Will Neide]

If there was any doubt about how dangerous Trump is if he is elected again, it should be gone now.

I have unfortunate news for you.

On cue...

You certainly have the right for the above opinion. If the "Trump/Russia" fantasy keeps you going, ok. IMO, it's simply venting, again and again.

Keep looking to the past, and not the present for someone to blame, if that's your own "safe space".

I find it amusing that there have been more postings about Trump (than Biden) on this thread alone, even though President Biden has been a disaster for a year--but for some reason, most have gone mute on him. Even our international friends. Much as expected.

Back to the real topic- hopefully current negotiations ends the violence - NOW.

Speaking of international- I hope the UN emergency meeting is for real and not for show. They always appear to say the right thing, but not so much in hard action.

[zachateseverything]

You certainly have the right for the above opinion. If the "Trump/Russia" fantasy keeps you going, ok. IMO, it's simply venting, again and again.

Keep looking to the past, and not the present for someone to blame, if that's your own "safe space".

I find it amusing that there have been more postings about Trump (than Biden) on this thread alone, even though President Biden has been a disaster for a year--but for some reason, most have gone mute on him. Even our international friends. Much as expected.

Back to the real topic- hopefully current negotiations ends the violence - NOW.

Speaking of international- I hope the UN emergency meeting is for real and not for show. They always appear to say the right thing, but not so much in hard action.

There's no fantasy here. Trump did those things.

and why would I lay any blame on Biden for this? Putin is the one that made the decision to invade, partly because he underestimated the unity and level of support that western and NATO nations would display.

The fact is, the Biden administration has done an effective job of isolating Russia both economically and politically. They've been transparent with information and done a heck of a job of marshalling our western allies to present a unified front.

[mg2ride]

Romania and the 3 baltic states are NATO countries also, so if they are attacked WW3 is basically on. Russia will keep inside Ukraine. Even Russia don't stand much of a chance against the might of NATO.

And we go full circle:
This sums up the original point of the thread.

[mg2ride]

Maybe:

(1). Have Interpol issue an arrest warrant for Putin. Invading another country without following the rules of international law should lead to charges being laid and a trial in the Hague (albeit Bush etc did in Iraq and in the circumstances, an arrest warrant could be a bit hypocritical).

(2). Sanction the people who rubber stamp Putin's decisions (ie the Duma representatives). They may be less likely to support Putin if it hurts them personally and be more likely to consider prevailing public opinion (which is unlikely to support a war of expansion).

Any other ideas?

(3) get people to stand on the corner of busy streets with "Ukrainian Lives Matter signs"

That would be equally as helpful

[jimcav]

I really hope the military aid is getting there. It would be much more helpful for the Ukrainians to engage and stop that 3-mile long convoy of tanks and artillery before it is position to pound the city. I can sadly imagine the damage once that occurs, especially if one even tries to believe that the Russians have thus far tried to avoid civilian targets/casualties.

[Doug Fattic]

I really hope the military aid is getting there. It would be much more helpful for the Ukrainians to engage and stop that 3-mile long convoy of tanks and artillery before it is position to pound the city. I can sadly imagine the damage once that occurs, especially if one even tries to believe that the Russians have thus far tried to avoid civilian targets/casualties.

Every year I spend a few weeks on a college campus west of Kiev (within walking distance of the Antonov Airport) working on our charity bicycle project. I just read that a 17 mile long Russian convey is at that airport right now waiting to invade Kyiv from the north west. Students have evacuated the campus but then it has filled again with people looking for refuge. Besides our little shop building at the back of campus, there are a couple of containers next to it for storage. Inside are a 6 or 8 road bikes we used for bike rides somewhere in Ukraine. Also inside is a bunch of frames waiting for parts to be built into bicycles. Covid as everybody knows has interrupted parts supply. it is doubtful if someone broke in they would see value in Anvil fixtures and rusty frames waiting to be sandblasted and powdercoated. However my personal bikes - a road trek and one of our transportation bicycles - aren't likely to be spared. That is very small compared to the loss many have and will experience. I'm pretty sure there is going to be a much greater need for our bicycles in the future. One of my translators wrote to say those around the college has described the invasion as pure hell.

[jimcav]

Every year I spend a few weeks on a college campus west of Kiev (within walking distance of the Antonov Airport) working on our charity bicycle project. I just read that a 17 mile long Russian convey is at that airport right now waiting to invade Kyiv from the north west. Students have evacuated the campus but then it has filled again with people looking for refuge. Besides our little shop building at the back of campus, there are a couple of containers next to it for storage. Inside are a 6 or 8 road bikes we used for bike rides somewhere in Ukraine. Also inside is a bunch of frames waiting for parts to be built into bicycles. Covid as everybody knows has interrupted parts supply. it is doubtful if someone broke in they would see value in Anvil fixtures and rusty frames waiting to be sandblasted and powdercoated. However my personal bikes - a road trek and one of our transportation bicycles - aren't likely to be spared. That is very small compared to the loss many have and will experience. I'm pretty sure there is going to be a much greater need for our bicycles in the future. One of my translators wrote to say those around the college has described the invasion as pure hell.

well, you certainly have not had a positive update, and unless there is some miraculous drone or IED type of effort from the Ukrainians, I fear for much more death and destruction. The sheer number of Russian vehicles makes it seem like they plan a literal physical encircling of the city. I can only hope the lowly russian soldiers do what they can individually to resist (or at least shoot inaccurately) to avoid civilian deaths.

[Peter Polack]

All the presidential finger pointing blame posted above does not address the problem.

Some of the professional editorial columnists, and pundits are saying the U.S. and NATO countries should invoke complete SWIFT sanctions, and halt all imports of Russian gas, their largest income producing export. This despite the economic and personal pain it will cause the U.S. and western Europe.

I believe it's true; we ALL must sacrifice in the support of Ukraine and to contain Russian aggression.

[Bob Ross]

I was about to post this in the What are you Listening to right now? thread, but I suspect it might be more effective here:

"The Great Gates of Kiev" by Modest Mussorgsky, from his Pictures At An Exhibition

[vertical_doug]

As a retired navy guy, I follow the strategic positioning of ships when the mood hits me. The United States Naval Institute (USNI) makes an interesting point concerning the deployment of ALL the remaining former Soviet Union large surface combatants. These are the large cruisers that bristle with weapons meant to intimidate during the Cold War. In the past decades, they have spent almost all of their time tied to a pier. They are old, outdated, and largely held together by 40 years of paint. It is curious why the Russians put them all to sea.

This is a short but good read. https://blog.usni.org/posts/2022/02/...-of-the-giants

I think Turkey closing the Bosporus is a good sign.

I spoke to a UK ex-military who like Bill follows this stuff. His take is the Russian strategy seems pretty incoherent, they have yet to achieve air superiority, and troops don't look particularly well supplied.

Maybe, after 30 years of Kleptocracy, all the nice stuff Putin thinks he has, doesn't exist. I have to think the US Military is watching this and is reassessing that Putin is a paper tiger.
I think he is in real trouble here. His miscalculation has made a Jewish Comedian the world's hero, and he has united everybody that matters. And even China is taking a time out.

[Doug Fattic]

I was about to post this in the What are you Listening to right now? thread, but I suspect it might be more effective here:

"The Great Gates of Kiev" by Modest Mussorgsky, from his Pictures At An Exhibition

If our little frame/bike shop gets damaged or destroyed (it is very close to the staging area where the Russians are preparing to invade Kyiv) I'm going to listen to Henryk Gorecki's Symphony No. 3, Op. 36 (also known as the Symphony of Sorrowful Songs) all day long. He was a Polish composer and this composition has 3 parts. According to Wikipedia: "The first is a 15th-century Polish lament of Mary, mother of Jesus, the second a message written on the wall of a Gestapo cell during World War II, and the third a Silesian folk song of a mother searching for her son killed by the Germans in the Silesian uprisings. The first and third movements are written from the perspective of a parent who has lost a child, and the second movement from that of a child separated from a parent."

If you are a depressed person listening to this could push you right over the edge. Fortunately I'm a happy person so I'll be okay.