Terrible mistake in Afghanistan.

[colker]

Those who sided w/ the US left behind. Not to mention it could be the new haven for terror against the US.

[zachateseverything]

there's not much more the US could do there. the choice was either occupy the country indefinitely or pull out and allow the Taliban to resume control. Neither is a good option. I feel bad for the citizens of Afghanistan but I don't think it's justifiable for the US to occupy that territory any longer.

[colker]

there's not much more the US could do there. the choice was either occupy the country indefinitely or pull out and allow the Taliban to resume control. Neither is a good option. I feel bad for the citizens of Afghanistan but I don't think it's justifiable for the US to occupy that territory any longer.

Did it have to be done in such irresponsible way towards thousands of people who colaborated w/ the US and now are running for their lives?

[Chad]

20 years and billions of dollars in training and equipment. How long should we ask our soldiers to give their lives for the freedom of others that refuse to fight for their own?

[Scott G.]

20 years and billions of dollars in training and equipment. How long should we ask our soldiers to give their lives for the freedom of others that refuse to fight for their own?

The victory conditions at start of the war, were to get OBL and Al Qaeda,
the "Bring Civilization to the Heathen" goal was thought up after OBL disappeared
into the arms of the Pakistani Intelligence Service.

A good book to read is "The Hardest Place" a long look the US in the Pech Valley
from 2003 to 2020.

https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/04/11...stan-military/

[ABiCi]

20 years and billions of dollars in training and equipment. How long should we ask our soldiers to give their lives for the freedom of others that refuse to fight for their own?

Trillions of dollars.

And they say you guys can't afford universal health care...

[Chad]

Trillions of dollars.

And they say you guys can't afford universal health care...

They can always find more war money.

[fastupslowdown]

There were so many errors in Afghanistan, starting with George W who got distracted by Iraq, followed by an Obama who created huge strategic blunders by giving the military less manpower than their lowest request and pre-announcing a withdrawal date which only encouraged them to avoid combat , hide in the countryside or stay in Pakistan protected territory till the Americans wound down , and then followed by Trump who negotiated a terrible deal where he even barred the government of Afghanistan from participating and pushed for the release of Taliban prisoners who simply rejoined the fight. All of this may not even matter when one considers Pakistan was aiding an abetting the Taliban and there was simply no chance the U.S. would increase the theater of operations and take the war the Pakistan. There was simply no way to wipe the Taliban out.

Of course the history of U.S. nation building rarely if ever ends well but the U.S. was stuck. They had some early success going after the Taliban but there was never an exit plan. If they had left years ago the Taliban was always going to come back and fill the vacuum.

As far as the latest pull-out not only was the U.S. military surprised but the Taliban itself was at how quickly they took over once Biden gave the pull-out. Seems the only people who saw this as a potential was the CIA. Biden really did have a weak hand here. Trump had signed a deal for the U.S. to get out, a deal he bragged about as irreversible not just two months ago. The cease fire was about to end and while the U.S. could renegotiate if the Taliban weren't honoring the deal they certainly would have started going after American soldiers again and with only about 1500 troops in Afghanistan the U.S. could not have fought back. The choice was either pulling out or greatly ramping up once again. Biden didn't believe in the mission and neither did the American people.

There's a good argument this was always going to be messy. Once it was seen that the U.S. was evacuating panic would have ensued and we'd probably be back where we are now. Any large organized withdrawal would have required retaking huge parts of the country and a huge commitment of new troops. Some of the optics we are seeing of the Taliban capturing U.S. weapons left behind is not nearly as bad as it seems. Blackhawk helicopters were introduced in the 1970's, and the Brazilian air transports are not state of the art equipment either. Perhaps some things could have been done better but its far from clear that's a certainty

[Corso]

Did it have to be done in such irresponsible way towards thousands of people who colaborated w/ the US and now are running for their lives?

Colker, instead of playing armchair politician (in a situation Brazil did nothing to support the United States after 911), why don't you THANK the United States of America for sending millions of dollars and millions of doses of covid vaccines to Brazil?

You're welcome.

Yes, it was a messy-no win-situation from day one. I feel for the American (and NATO) soldiers and their families who were duty-bound to follow orders. Thousand killed and wounded.

President Biden says the "buck stops with him", but then blamed everyone else, as well as insulting the 66,000 Afgans who lost their lives fighting the Taliban. That number is climbing daily.

But yeah, I agree with you- one would assume we could have handled this better. Our current Commander in Chief is asleep at the wheel. No surprise.

[BBB]

Not that I will ever stray from being an arm-chair politician, but I imagine it must be a very heavy burden to bear when deciding whether or not to send your armed forces into harm's way.

Then overlay that burden with a horrific act of terrorism, public reaction ranging from bomb them back to the stone age to let Interpol arrest him and everything in between, some of the pressures within and without government as Guido mentions and presumably a realistic view that any military activity was going to result in a lot of people dying, then it is a very heavy burden indeed.

What should have happened? Hard question to answer.

[Saab2000]

This was guaranteed to be a shit show regardless of who would be POTUS/CIC. The previous president also planned a withdrawal and an earlier one.

Since the president isn’t personally in charge of ground logistics I would guess the responsibility for chaos lies elsewhere but it could be related to the timing of CIC orders.

I don’t think there’s any broad support in the US for keeping a US presence in Afghanistan. As mentioned, this was almost certainly a mistake at the highest levels in the emotional days and weeks after 9/11. While the place seemed to harbor terrorists it didn’t really seem to be the origin point of it. That would seem to have been elsewhere, primarily Saudi Arabia. OBL and most of the 9/11 terrorists were Saudi.

[HorsCat]

Colker, instead of playing armchair politician (in a situation Brazil did nothing to support the United States after 911), why don't you THANK the United States of America for sending millions of dollars and millions of doses of covid vaccines to Brazil?

You're welcome.

Yes, it was a messy-no win-situation from day one. I feel for the American (and NATO) soldiers and their families who were duty-bound to follow orders. Thousand killed and wounded.

President Biden says the "buck stops with him", but then blamed everyone else, as well as insulting the 66,000 Afgans who lost their lives fighting the Taliban. That number is climbing daily.

But yeah, I agree with you- one would assume we could have handled this better. Our current Commander in Chief is asleep at the wheel. No surprise.

smh

[colker]

Colker, instead of playing armchair politician (in a situation Brazil did nothing to support the United States after 911), why don't you THANK the United States of America for sending millions of dollars and millions of doses of covid vaccines to Brazil?

You're welcome.

Yes, it was a messy-no win-situation from day one. I feel for the American (and NATO) soldiers and their families who were duty-bound to follow orders. Thousand killed and wounded.

President Biden says the "buck stops with him", but then blamed everyone else, as well as insulting the 66,000 Afgans who lost their lives fighting the Taliban. That number is climbing daily.

But yeah, I agree with you- one would assume we could have handled this better. Our current Commander in Chief is asleep at the wheel. No surprise.

Colker, instead of playing armchair politician (in a situation Brazil did nothing to support the United States after 911), why don't you THANK the United States of America for sending millions of dollars and millions of doses of covid vaccines to Brazil?

You insist on the silly notion that only americans should criticize the US: the most powerfull army in the world w/ a tradition of intervention everywhre. So.. no; i won´t thank you or anyone before criticizing a humanitarian disaster created by the US. Nor i will thank vaccines when it´s a measure that helps stop virus contamination everywhere including the US.

Armchair politician... is it anyone who is not a nationalist right winger? Btw, trumpists helped to make possible a global neofascist rise. Yes, americans supporting the widespread of fake news while routinely attacking pillars of democracy as professional journalism, inclusiveness and minority rights sure gave a bad example worldwide. Again, no thank you for that.

Trump was "talking" to the Taleban about leaving the place just like he peace talked to North Korea. Great success. BUt i digress...

[Corso]

Nor i will thank vaccines when it´s a measure that helps stop virus contamination everywhere including the US.

Nice. My country GIVES your country millions of dollars, to save Brazilian lives foremost, and a simple "thank you" is out of your comprehension .

Everyone wants and demands and thinks they are entitled to American aid, paid for by American taxes, and are quick to criticize and bite the hand that GIVES them millions.

"Silly notion": Yes, everyone is entitled to post an opinion. But (MY OPINION) if you have no skin in the game, you're just farting in the wind.



Why bring up Trump? He's not in charge now, so get over him. President Biden in now the Commander-in-chief. At least point your finger in the right direction.

[beeatnik]

Those who sided w/ the US left behind. Not to mention it could be the new haven for terror against the US.

The Taliban are not interested in international terrorism and their objectives are not aligned with groups such as ISIS. 40 years after the Soviets we continue to fail to understand the Pashtun.

[Doug Fattic]

One of my better friends is a Russian that came to the States to work on his Phd. He served as a translator when I went to the XB3 bicycle company in Kharkov Ukraine when Shimano Europe was also there to work out a deal to put Shimano parts on XB3 frames. Up to that point their bicycles were equipped with XB3 made parts. That would be like 50's era technology used on not-very-well-made parts. An agreement was struck and XB3 started to equip their bicycles with Shimano parts (which saved the company for awhile). That was one of the most interesting events of my life. But I digress

Oleg my friend was conscripted into the Russian army when he was 20 or so. At that time his USSR unit had to do a tour in Afghanistan. It was a terrible experience for him. His description of the effect on his friends that were also there was that they came away really damaged. His stories sounded the same as what happened to my friends that had to serve in Viet Nam and also came back broken. His opinion after serving over there was that the situation was unsolvable for an invading army to solve. He was describing his Afghanistan experiences to me in 2002 or so.

[colker]

The Taliban are not interested in international terrorism and their objectives are not aligned with groups such as ISIS. 40 years after the Soviets we continue to fail to understand the Pashtun.

I won´t understand any culture that forbids women to go to school. AQ found a hide out there.

[Tom]

The mistake was going in. I can't find it on my shelves but I believe it was Peter Hopkirk's book on the Great Game that I read. Afghanistan is where empires go to die. When the British retreated it was something like six people that made it out.

[sk_tle]

We may not agree with how people live in different countries but we just have to accept that. We definitely cannot enter a war and expect them to change for our own specific vision of a better world. This do not work unless you plan on invading them permanently and settle there for centuries and mix up with the local (like vikings did in europe, like US does in Hawaï). The only thing that can help them is giving them a good example of a sane society respecting human rights in the hope they might be inspired by it, something we also all fail to do repeatedly, and help those that want to set free to get out of their country and have a chance to start a new, better life in our own countries.

[Peter Polack]

I agree with colker; the exit should have been timed to accommodate all those in the pool assisting U.S. forces as translators, etc. We took their desperately needed services, then crapped on them when the time came to leave.