And now for something new...did the Pandemic change your political ideology?

[j44ke]

...

Finally, VS does not reflect diversity (not a bad thing) which is precisely the reason I started the thread here. But while VS skews one way, it also seems to be a place where opposing views are clearly articulated, ie, the occasional conservative post. In essence, I was wondering if the tiny shifts in alignment we would see from the Bloviated Former President Era Pandemic would be more impactful in conservatives v. democrats. For every 1000 conservatives maybe 2 shifted left, for every 1000 progressives 1 shifted right...that kind of thing.

I agree that's an interesting question. My gut says this was Rorschach Test moment where everyone saw affirmation of their deeply held (but unspoken) suspicions about other people in the narrative of the last 4+ years. Thus my feeling that what was lost was patience. If that translates into further ideological entrenchment or increased/decreased numbers of swing voters available in future elections - that will be interesting.

[Mabouya]

"I will not take his word for it."

I have no problem with this response

+1

Given all the other patently false medical information and recommendations provided by Trump (I won't even bother to mention them, but you surely know what I mean, unless the bleach you injected has wiped your brain clean) I have zero problems with anyone saying that they won't trust Trump on this (or just about any other) issue.

[Sino]

You're conflating (intentionally?) multiple factors to try to champion some cause. This is the same thing fascists do to justify oddball and hurtful policy positions.

Without getting into whether or not he was conflating ideas (which I think it is arguable that he is not- each one is dealing with the definition of particulates and how far they travel in specific reference to covid, but maybe you mean between various posts as the thread has evolved?), why is it that you consistently must attack others by calling them fascist if you don't like what they say? You're just inventing things and saying that whenever someone uses logic or reasoning that you don't like, it's brand of fascism?

You calling people fascist every three seconds is what uneducated, childish, wanna-be anarchists do. Go spray paint some lame anarchy signs on a wall somewhere or something. Honestly...that people actually support you calling people fascist all the time just supports the fact that too many here are just trying to be part of the "cool" middle school group on the playground.

And frequently they're moderators too. Talk about a real form of fascism.....attacking and censuring any sort of dissenting opinion while simultaneously making baseless claims that they are the fascists. Unbelievable.

[echappist]

Without getting into whether or not he was conflating ideas (which I think it is arguable that he is not- each one is dealing with the definition of particulates and how far they travel in specific reference to covid, but maybe you mean between various posts as the thread has evolved?), why is it that you consistently must attack others by calling them fascist if you don't like what they say? You're just inventing things and saying that whenever someone uses logic or reasoning that you don't like, it's brand of fascism?

You calling people fascist every three seconds is what uneducated, childish, wanna-be anarchists do. Go spray paint some lame anarchy signs on a wall somewhere or something. Honestly...that people actually support you calling people fascist all the time just supports the fact that too many here are just trying to be part of the "cool" middle school group on the playground.

And frequently they're moderators too. Talk about a real form of fascism.....attacking and censuring any sort of dissenting opinion while simultaneously making baseless claims that they are the fascists. Unbelievable.

You have a point that the poster to whom you responded probably shouldn't have made the “fascist” remark. Rhetorically unnecessary and probably detracts from the otherwise valid point re: intentional conflation.

But you lost the script by calling him an “anarchist” and telling him to go “spray paint”, thereby utilizing the very same hyperbolic writing for which you are chiding him. I hope you see the irony...

[j44ke]

Hi Sino - I’m one of those moderators. We try not to censor ideas. Decorum is more important. Disagreement is fine. Name calling is not and personal attacks are not. But we usually try to err on the side of not doing anything and letting it flow. The boat usually rights itself. However, sometimes individual contributors don’t see the difference and complaints start to accumulate.

I personally struggled to understand what Beeatnik was talking about, but it seemed like there was a kernel of something there so I was pleased when he wrote me a brief explanation that was pretty clear. He’s pretty interested in actual risk and how that shifts when viewed from different directions (over simplification but,) and he’s asking some interesting questions. What he isn’t doing is mitigating the severity of the epidemic or the tragedy of so many people dying. More about cutting down some of the signal noise. And it doesn’t seem like he’s questioning the existence of the pandemic.

Anyway, this has become a contentious thread, and I’ve likely added to that, but like I said - there are interesting questions involved.

[j44ke]

So just to take some of the pressure off Beeatnik, take a read of this article, an interview with the immunologist Michael Mina. He's talking about contagiousness and its relationship to some of the testing that is done to detect Covid, with a suggestion that calculations for transmission risks are perhaps incomplete. There are times when the infected are highly contagious and others when they are not, but the way testing is done tends to flatten the differences between those periods. He slips up a bit when he anthropomorphizes the covid virus late in the interview as learning and adjusting as an explanation of mutations - which is assuredly not what happens in mutations - but most of his answers to the questions asked are interesting.

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2021...-outbreak.html

[BBB]

Anyway, this has become a contentious thread, and I’ve likely added to that, but like I said - there are interesting questions involved.

Isn't the only question, has the pandemic changed your political ideology?

It's not about calling each other fascists or the opinion of an immunologist about transmission risk.

[bcm119]

So just to take some of the pressure off Beeatnik, take a read of this article, an interview with the immunologist Michael Mina. He's talking about contagiousness and its relationship to some of the testing that is done to detect Covid, with a suggestion that calculations for transmission risks are perhaps incomplete. There are times when the infected are highly contagious and others when they are not, but the way testing is done tends to flatten the differences between those periods. He slips up a bit when he anthropomorphizes the covid virus late in the interview as learning and adjusting as an explanation of mutations - which is assuredly not what happens in mutations - but most of his answers to the questions asked are interesting.

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2021...-outbreak.html

That's a very interesting interview, especially the discussion about public health messaging, which seems relevant to this thread.

The government's tendency to not trust the public to understand any nuance in health or safety messaging reminds me of Nancy Reagan's war on drugs. Undoing the damage from lumping marijuana with dangerous drugs has taken half a century and counting.

[kdawg]

I've been listening to an interesting podcast recently - Death at the Wing. Loosely about basketball but more about the culture around the people at certain times - and it's incredible how a lot of the issues seem to come back to Ronald Reagan over and over again. They knew what they were doing and it's continued through the following generations.

[Marvinlungwitz]

No, but I’ve changed the color for my new bike.

[j44ke]

Isn't the only question, has the pandemic changed your political ideology?

It's not about calling each other fascists or the opinion of an immunologist about transmission risk.

Sure. But for some people the handling of transmission risk and accurate information regarding such has potentially affected their political ideology - at least in the states, where the sway of the middle of the middle of voters at least appears to control the outcome of elections (though some doubt about that also, as per some analysis by FiveThirtyEight after previous elections.) They've also just been contemplating possible "leans" in the 2022 elections.

[Clean39T]

I will always vote for those who do the least harm to the citizenry and the planet.... and at this point in time, there's only one political party that bends even slightly in that direction.

[zachateseverything]

Without getting into whether or not he was conflating ideas (which I think it is arguable that he is not- each one is dealing with the definition of particulates and how far they travel in specific reference to covid, but maybe you mean between various posts as the thread has evolved?), why is it that you consistently must attack others by calling them fascist if you don't like what they say? You're just inventing things and saying that whenever someone uses logic or reasoning that you don't like, it's brand of fascism?

You calling people fascist every three seconds is what uneducated, childish, wanna-be anarchists do. Go spray paint some lame anarchy signs on a wall somewhere or something. Honestly...that people actually support you calling people fascist all the time just supports the fact that too many here are just trying to be part of the "cool" middle school group on the playground.

And frequently they're moderators too. Talk about a real form of fascism.....attacking and censuring any sort of dissenting opinion while simultaneously making baseless claims that they are the fascists. Unbelievable.

I didn't call anyone a fascist. I said it's the same thing fascists do: start with the outcome they want and marginalize any pesky facts that get in the way.

but cool story bro with trying to label me as an anarchist. it seems just a tad hypocritical to engage in personal attacks after chiding me for the same (in your opinion).

[BBB]

Sure. But for some people the handling of transmission risk and accurate information regarding such has potentially affected their political ideology - at least in the states, where the sway of the middle of the middle of voters at least appears to control the outcome of elections (though some doubt about that also, as per some analysis by FiveThirtyEight after previous elections.) They've also just been contemplating possible "leans" in the 2022 elections.

It may have, but seeing the bloke whose initial gambit was to label the virus a hoax, said stuff about bleach and suggested it would one day miraculously go away and presided over almost 500,000 dead still managed to get more votes than he did in the previous election speaks volumes.

Maybe it is a more relevant question to swinging voters, but they are probably less ideologically inclined in the first place.

[beeatnik]

Hi Sino - I’m one of those moderators. We try not to censor ideas. Decorum is more important. Disagreement is fine. Name calling is not and personal attacks are not. But we usually try to err on the side of not doing anything and letting it flow. The boat usually rights itself. However, sometimes individual contributors don’t see the difference and complaints start to accumulate.

I personally struggled to understand what Beeatnik was talking about, but it seemed like there was a kernel of something there so I was pleased when he wrote me a brief explanation that was pretty clear. He’s pretty interested in actual risk and how that shifts when viewed from different directions (over simplification but,) and he’s asking some interesting questions. What he isn’t doing is mitigating the severity of the epidemic or the tragedy of so many people dying. More about cutting down some of the signal noise. And it doesn’t seem like he’s questioning the existence of the pandemic.

Anyway, this has become a contentious thread, and I’ve likely added to that, but like I said - there are interesting questions involved.

I visited my 73 year old aunt, who lives with her 50 year old daughter and 33 year old granddaughter in Boyle Heights.

caserates.jpeg

We caught up outside; they were masked (fully vaccinated as well). I forgot mine. They shared stories about 6 Latinx community members (two fathers with young kids) lost to Covid-19. I hadn't seen them in 6 months; it was nice to catch up.

[e-RICHIE]

The Mean Streets of V Salon

[j44ke]

It may have, but seeing the bloke whose initial gambit was to label the virus a hoax, said stuff about bleach and suggested it would one day miraculously go away and presided over almost 500,000 dead still managed to get more votes than he did in the previous election speaks volumes.

Maybe it is a more relevant question to swinging voters, but they are probably less ideologically inclined in the first place.

Right - I didn't say which way it shifted their political ideology. Becoming further entrenched in their ideology is a type of shift. You may be right about swing voters, but I've been wondering how many of them actually remain.

[72gmc]

No, but I’ve changed the color for my new bike.

A message of hope!

[BBB]

Right - I didn't say which way it shifted their political ideology. Becoming further entrenched in their ideology is a type of shift. You may be right about swing voters, but I've been wondering how many of them actually remain.

No dramas. I was just using Trump as an easy and obvious example. Maybe we need a custom bike loving psephologist on board!

[j44ke]

No dramas. I was just using Trump as an easy and obvious example. Maybe we need a custom bike loving psephologist on board!

Hey, I had to look that up! Of course they would have a term for it, but I never knew. :-)