Insomnia

[KonaSS]

I have tried all kinds of things, and I hate to admit this, but to me, the biggest correlation I can find is exercise and sleep. I race, and am training really hard this time of year. I find that on really hard training days, I don't sleep very well. For example, had a 2 day stage race this weekend, 10 hours on the bike, slept like crap last night. Conversely, when I take a rest week, and let some of that physical stress go and only train moderately, I sleep much better.

Not sure it provides me with any easy answer, cause I can't hit my on the bike goals with low to moderate exercise.

@Matthew Strongin - knowing you spend a good deal of time on the bike, wondering if you have noticed any similar correlations.

[defspace]

FWIW, I found the Whoop useful for about 6-9mo. One of the biggest revelations was that I was actually getting more/better sleep than I would have guessed (sorry to bring that up in this thread). The other big take away was that I wasn't eating anywhere close to enough on big days and overeating on easy days. And it confirmed my suspicions about alcohol.

I've noticed some problems falling asleep if I start a weights program. The first few weeks are rough. Once I'm settled into it, it's all good. I think this may be similar to what KonaSS describes above.

[Matthew Strongin]

I have tried all kinds of things, and I hate to admit this, but to me, the biggest correlation I can find is exercise and sleep. I race, and am training really hard this time of year. I find that on really hard training days, I don't sleep very well. For example, had a 2 day stage race this weekend, 10 hours on the bike, slept like crap last night. Conversely, when I take a rest week, and let some of that physical stress go and only train moderately, I sleep much better.

Not sure it provides me with any easy answer, cause I can't hit my on the bike goals with low to moderate exercise.
@Matthew Strongin - knowing you spend a good deal of time on the bike, wondering if you have noticed any similar correlations.

I used to find that long and/or hard rides made it easier for me to fall asleep, though I'm so turned around these days that I don't really know what role exercise is playing. A couple weeks ago when I had a 5 day run of insomnia I was barely exercising and resting a lot. Last week I rode hard and now I haven't slept well in 3 days. I just don't know.

[bbillington]

the Whoop tells you what you already know - this is my opinion after 6 months - you need to be disciplined to hold some variables constant while you tweak others -so many variables - if you are in shape and train in a smart way - you get hero feedback and feel great about yourself because your are a 1%er - everyone else in the world needs more sleep/rest and to push themselves harder :)

Fair points. My perspective is that of someone new to having all of this data. When I raced on the road, I was a single parent living car free. My commute was nearly 50 miles a day, all year, regardless of weather conditions. I had no money for gadgets or coaching and was undoubtedly consistently over trained and could do little to avoid that. Racing was a luxury.

There may be much you already know but there is also much that one can only guess at. Removing the guess work makes one more efficient and capable of measuring progress.

[marley]

It’s a tool and new toy so enjoy ...I am cynical but still wearing and paying for it. I looked at in the same way anything to help move the needle in the right direction.


To the above - falling asleep to quickly can be a sign of over training / sleep deprivation .

I have also found that stress (low grade, unconscious- think work related shit ) has a building effect that can last 2-3 days after what I thought was the worst time.

[Tom]

Sometimes i can't sleep unless I stretch out or roll my legs. They get uncomfortable and that's the only thing that'll work.

I know this isn't helpful but when I'm staring at the ceiling fretting about work or whatever my cat comes in and after she finishes knocking a couple of books off the night table she lies down next to me and starts purring. I swear, I'm out in 15 seconds when she does that.

[prcrstn8]

tl;dr

I've had insomnia since about 1965.

Ambien.

[Alistair]

Seems like the OP is on the right track, gathering information about the problem at hand and getting expert advice. A great start, I hope it yields good results.

My 2 cents is that I would highly recommend watching/listening to the episodes of the Huberman Podcast that are concerned with sleep, https://www.youtube.com/c/AndrewHubermanLab/videos (episodes 2 through 5 in that link). Dr Huberman is a professor of neuroscience at Stanford and seems to know his stuff. He has a good presentation style and is very focused on peer reviewed data and papers. Solid information which is nicely laid out.

Alistair.

[ides1056]

My sleep patterns are heavily influenced by the phase of the moon. I don't sleep well around the full moon, period. Have to wear a mask to block any light, and sometimes wear earplugs to drown out even the sound of rain. Where I live there is no other sound but Nature. The birds wake me up at 5:30 at this time of the year.

Hard workouts in the winter when I ski put me in a coma. I come home and go to bed. Cycling does not do this, or if it does I sleep for three hours and then it's hit or miss.

I'd avoid benzos of any kind. They work but are not without consequences. With Ambien you might find yourself raiding the refrigerator in your sleep. This happened to my Mother-in-law.

[j44ke]

I don't sleep well when my wife doesn't sleep well. I made the mistake of going out to the living room and sleeping on the couch. Once. God forbid one of us get some rest. However, if I just get up at 5:30 and leave her in bed, she falls back to sleep for 2.5 hours. And I get an extra cup of coffee and then a nap at 2PM.

[bbillington]

I don't sleep well when my wife doesn't sleep well. I made the mistake of going out to the living room and sleeping on the couch. Once. God forbid one of us get some rest. However, if I just get up at 5:30 and leave her in bed, she falls back to sleep for 2.5 hours. And I get an extra cup of coffee and then a nap at 2PM.

She couldn’t sleep because you weren’t in bed for her to keep awake. :-)

[j44ke]

She couldn’t sleep because you weren’t in bed for her to keep awake. :-)

This is true.

[prcrstn8]

ps: big, over-the-ear, noise-canceling headphones are a help, even when there seems to be no noise, and especially trying to get back to sleep at 4 AM. In-ear buds just give me headaches, sometimes triggering migraines.

[bbillington]

Just had a virtual office visit with the sleep doc. She was 5 minutes late then gave me 5 whole minutes of her time to go over the results of my sleep study. I learned absolutely nothing from the process other than that I won’t waste another dime on these folks. I feel like I should call our insurance company and apologize for the fees these jokers extracted from them.

I’m going to revisit cognitive therapy and commit to keeping it going for at least a month. Like so many things in life I find I’m better off doing it myself than paying a professional. Sucks!

[bcm119]

I think you said you tried cannabis before, but have you tried microdosing modern edibles? Edibles have come a long way in just the last few years. I know several folks who swear by small amounts of edible cbd/thc for a good night's sleep with no ill effects.

[bbillington]

I think you said you tried cannabis before, but have you tried microdosing modern edibles? Edibles have come a long way in just the last few years. I know several folks who swear by small amounts of edible cbd/thc for a good night's sleep with no ill effects.

Good idea! I microdose something else that rhymes with doom and the impact on other aspects of my life has been amazing.

[ides1056]

the problem with any edible is inconsistent results

one night its sleep

the next you are effing crawling on the floor

figure out a way to sleep without any help

no idea what that means

If only I could sleep like my dogs do.