Incoming lab. Please share your dog wisdom.

[holliscx]

I guess technically we're getting a corona puppy. We've been considering our first dog for our family for awhile but the past year plus was definitely the tipping point. I narrowed it down to a German shorthaired pointer (had one growing up) or a labrador. I talked on the phone to a wonderful GSP breeder in Romania but a couple days ago I did a 180 and circled back to labs. If I were getting a dog just for me I would have already gotten a GSP. My wife wanted a dog growing up but her parents never let her get one so this will be her first dog. I've always been lab curious and I think a lab is more of a family dog; our kids are almost 9 and 11. I've had a German shorthair and a pointer is more of a lifestyle dog because they rev so high. A GSP will adapt but I think they thrive in the country. So bring on the shedding and weight gain in their later years, we're going to get a lab from a breeder in the Basque Country. I really feel good about her. Our first choice is a chocolate from the two dogs below. Both were born in the Finnish Laplands to a breeder who they say is one of the most important lab breeders of this century.

esme.jpg

tabasco.jpg

The same two dogs were bred last summer but the frozen semen kit arrived late due to the pandemic and only two females were born. So the breeder is doing a second litter this summer and plans to keep a female for her kennel. She sent me the pics of both females from last summer and this chubby girl below is amazing.

chocolate_1.jpg

chocolate_2.jpg

I had rescue dogs growing up, a GSP from a breeder, an Old English Sheepdog, and there's something about supporting breeders who are passionate about what they do. It's a love of labor and it shows.

I'm writing because I've never trained a dog. I want to possibly take an obedience course early on with this pup and really work for a well-trained lab. I fly fish but I won't rule out going out once or twice to shoot a bird for dinner. I don't know anything about hunting but where I fish there are hunting lodges all around so I know they would help put me on quail or some game birds. I would do this mostly for the dog and possibly to have my son and/or daughter there for the experience of working for our dinner. I also wouldn't rule out field trials on a recreational level nothing too serious so holler if anyone has done this for I don't know anything, but I would be interested possibly for something to work towards.

Since I've been out of the game (dogs) for so long I'd like to lean on Salonistas to share their wisdom for me. What have you learned, what do you suggest I keep in mind, anything, everything for this little fellow is going to change our world when he or she arrives. Our first choice is a chocolate from the parents above but we also said we would consider a male with a sturdy blocky head which would be black. The black litters are this summer and the chocolate litter isn't until fall. We're not in a huge rush but I'm already looking at collars and crates.

Can I ask lab owners one thing: will a heavy dog like these labs run alongside me at a moderate pace on the bike? I've never owned a lab and don't see them running like a German shorthair. Does anyone have a lab with a similar build who can comment as to how much they will or won't run? I know you're not supposed to exercise them properly until a year and a half but just curious. I posted a thread about a bike trailer. I would like to take the dog to the beach to fetch a dummy in the water and also on a gravel road overlooking the city to run through the woods.

We're really excited about whatever nature brings us. What do you wish you knew or wish you had done differently? As I said this will be my wife and kids' first dog. I think I'm putting them in a great place. I've been reading up on Ducks Unlimited a little bit for I want to train the dog to retrieve even though we won't be hunters. I may take the dog fly fishing occasionally but have no idea how that would work as fishing is hard enough on my own. Thanks for any lab wisdom.

[suspectdevice]

The chocolate lab we had when i was 6-16 never got any training and never got snipped.

It was an absolute pain in the ass.

The only labs I have met that weren’t absolute freaking monsters were trained and socialized with people non-stop.

Remember, those little buggers are STRONG, FAST and HUNGRY. Seems to be a more than full time job keeping a lab from destroying your house.

[thollandpe]

One excellent thing we have done for all our dogs is installing an invisible fence to give them full run of the whole yard.

That and train them with trail manners for mountain biking.

A good friend had a great dog, a chocolate lab named Moose. Retriever extraordinaire. My friend could take a rock and throw it in two feet of water. It sometimes took Moose 20 minutes, but he would come back with that same damn rock.

[gregl]

The only labs I have met that weren’t absolute freaking monsters were trained and socialized with people non-stop.

I’ll second the recommendations for training and socialization, but add that this applies to all dogs. If you plan to hunt with the dog, consult appropriate subject matter experts on how to acclimate the dog to gun shot noise. My uncle had a beautiful German Shorthaired Pointer that cowered at the sound of a shotgun blast - so much for hunting...

I’ll also suggest getting your children involved in the training process. It’s a great experience for both the dog and the kids. My daughter was ten when we got our current dog. She came to all his training sessions with me and learned the nuances of dog handling. After we finished the basic obedience course, my daughter trained him for canine agility. It was terrific for both of them. Max learned off-leash commands/skills and Allie learned about hard work and responsibility. As a bonus, agility training classes tired both of them out! They both collapsed and slept well on training days.

Greg

[monadnocky]

I’ll also suggest getting your children involved in the training process.... After we finished the basic obedience course, my daughter trained him for canine agility. It was terrific for both of them....

I can think of no better means of socialization AND training than an agility course. Listen to this wise man.

[suspectdevice]

As far as running with you on a trail:
The chocolate breed is so inbred that yours will likely suffer from hip displaysia. Take it swimming. Mine would pull me around in the surf when i was little and was really only calm if we took it out on a motor boat so it could air out its jowls.

[monadnocky]

Socialization first. To everything, of all shapes and sizes. Especially as a puppy. Fire engines. Men with moustaches. Baby strollers. Babies. Bikes. Sidewalks. Busy downtowns. Other dogs.
Then training. Which, with a lab, will be relatively easy.

People get the order of this reversed all the time, and it makes for some reasonably well-trained dogs that are absolutely neurotic and can't tolerate anything they're not used to.

Suspect is right: chocolates especially are renowned for bad hips - do you have hip scores for the dog and bitch (not sure if this is a thing outside the US)? I'd be cautious about lots of trail running with any lab.

You're going to get a lot of opinions here so take mine with a grain of salt. My wife's a vet and has a lot of thoughts on how terrible American labs have become, but admittedly I know nothing about the vigor of European ones.

[caleb]

Suspect is right: chocolates especially are renowned for bad hips - do you have hip scores for the dog and bitch (not sure if this is a thing outside the US)? I'd be cautious about lots of trail running with any lab.

@holliscx The above is true, and it's not just hips. I don't understand exactly how the genetics work, but to get chocolate dogs you basically have to select on color for generations, which is a bad selection criteria that has a bunch of trickledown effects. Chocolates are basically old school designer dogs.

I don't know if you've already settled on the chocolate, but if not you may at least want to consider a black litter. Most labs with selective breeding for performance and temperament will be black, with a few yellows. While that chocolate pup is cute AF and I have no idea about any of the pedigrees involved, I'd tend toward a black lab over a chocolate pretty much every time.

To back up one more step, if you're not 100% sold on this breeder, you may save yourself a bunch of heartache and money by starting with parents who have hip, elbow, and eye certifications.

[monadnocky]

@holliscx The above is true, and it's not just hips. I don't understand exactly how the genetics work, but to get chocolate dogs you basically have to select on color for generations, which is a bad selection criteria that has a bunch of trickledown effects. Chocolates are basically old school designer dogs...

This matches with my understanding as well - my wife notices that chocolates have a LOT more allergies than the yellow and black varieties - this is anecdotal, but apparently a well-known among vets.
Puppies sure are cute though.

[caleb]

I'm writing because I've never trained a dog.

...

Can I ask lab owners one thing: will a heavy dog like these labs run alongside me at a moderate pace on the bike?

Congrats! Dogs are awesome, and I bet this one will be a dog.

Here's a book I've found useful: book. I think a well-bred lab isn't too tough to train. When he's a year old and getting a big head, just remember to communicate with him as a dog rather than default to getting anthropomorphic.

Even a stumpy lab should easily be able to run with you for a few miles. When my golden just needed a ton of exercise I ran him on a local hobo-ish mountain bike trail early in the morning when it was cool (anything above about 50F is hot to a retriever) for 8-10 miles. It helps to have some water for them to jump in since they're half fish.

Good luck!

[rec head]

This site has good resources https://www.insightfulanimals.com/trusted-resources Everyone should at least watch the body language videos.

Positive reinforcement training is the way to go. Most people have problems learning how to do it at first and misuse the clicker. My brother's dog is a box of rocks but he is a really well trained box of rocks.

Keep in mind that all dogs aren't meant for all things. You won't know until you have the dog. Some dogs are great trail dogs, some might have the energy but can't help chasing anything that moves. Those dogs need to stay home. Always ask yourself if you are doing something for the dog or for you. If either of you is frustrated all the time while doing something then it isn't worth it. Find something else.

Socialization has been covered. It is really important.

[monadnocky]

Can I also point out how amazing it is that in the "Similar Threads" section below, the #1 thread is "Incoming Dogma F8."

[gregl]

This site has good resources https://www.insightfulanimals.com/trusted-resources Everyone should at least watch the body language videos.

Positive reinforcement training is the way to go. Most people have problems learning how to do it at first and misuse the clicker. My brother's dog is a box of rocks but he is a really well trained box of rocks.

Keep in mind that all dogs aren't meant for all things. You won't know until you have the dog. Some dogs are great trail dogs, some might have the energy but can't help chasing anything that moves. Those dogs need to stay home. Always ask yourself if you are doing something for the dog or for you. If either of you is frustrated all the time while doing something then it isn't worth it. Find something else.

Socialization has been covered. It is really important.

So much goodness in this post. Positive reinforcement is the only way to go. It’s especially important for smart, independent dogs. They will quickly learn that good behavior equals reward. Our Wheaten Terrier is the smartest dog I’ve ever worked with. That intelligence and independence also made him the most exasperating puppy I’ve ever trained. Once he learned “what’s in it for him” (treats) he became the rock star of his obedience classes. He became an absolutely wonderful adult dog who we can take anywhere with complete confidence in his behavior. All I have to do is give him the attention command and he immediately looks me in the eye, ready for direction.

Greg

[holliscx]

Re: health issues these dogs have come from a kennel in Finland where they've screened for hereditary issues going back 5-6 generations or more. So I don't think that's a big concern and re: chocolates I'm not a breeder but both the kennel in Finland and the kennel in Spain have all three colors and I'm not going to overthink it. If there was any reason a chocolate wouldn't be as healthy they wouldn't breed them period. If anyone's interested look up Mallorn's kennel in the Laplands of Finland. This woman has been on the national breeding board for more than a decade. She knows her stuff and is a highly respected breeder. She endorsed the breeder in the Basque Country who has three or so of her dogs; this woman took her accolades seriously. I think we're in great hands and are going to get a healthy lab. We're leaning chocolate but haven't ruled out a black male with a bearlike head. Something about a big masculine head on a lab absolutely melts me, and we already have a name for a black male which is Tar. Not to disclose my basketball allegiance of course.

Thanks for all the comments. I'll be rereading and following all of them. I have looked into both field trials and agility and both are options here. My kids watched the Spanish agility championships on YouTube and said they'd be down for it as long as a hundred people aren't watching them. I'm sure the local trials are real mom and pop.

[zachateseverything]

I grew up with chocolate labs. Ours were smart and easy to train. They chewed the heck out of stuff up until they were a year and a half old but then they settled down. Their appetite never goes away though. A lab will eat basically until they explode. We had to stretch out our dogs' food with green beans and carrots. I'd also recommend swimming over running. Even if your dog doesn't have the hip issues common among the breed, labs are big boys, running is going to accelerate wear and tear on joints.

Positive reinforcement training works wonders. I got a rescue mutt back in November. A 6-7 month old cattle dog mix. He might be part Lab but for sure he's very food focused like a lab. That actually makes training easy. One of the things that we do is training before meal time. I'll have his bowl of food in my hand and I'll be handfeeding him kibbles when he successfully completes commands, after about a dozen or so he gets the bowl. He went from being a rescue dog that never had a human before to knowing, sit, shake, stay, his name, come here, crawl, and leave it in about two weeks. Now that I'm vaccinated we'll sign him up for some formal obedience classes but that's more to keep him well behaved when he's outside of the house than anything else.

[BBB]

Can I ask lab owners one thing: will a heavy dog like these labs run alongside me at a moderate pace on the bike? I've never owned a lab and don't see them running like a German shorthair. Does anyone have a lab with a similar build who can comment as to how much they will or won't run? I know you're not supposed to exercise them properly until a year and a half but just curious. I posted a thread about a bike trailer. I would like to take the dog to the beach to fetch a dummy in the water and also on a gravel road overlooking the city to run through the woods.

We're really excited about whatever nature brings us. What do you wish you knew or wish you had done differently? As I said this will be my wife and kids' first dog. I think I'm putting them in a great place. I've been reading up on Ducks Unlimited a little bit for I want to train the dog to retrieve even though we won't be hunters. I may take the dog fly fishing occasionally but have no idea how that would work as fishing is hard enough on my own. Thanks for any lab wisdom.

Great thread!

We're currently on our second Labrador. They are wonderful dogs; excessively friendly, entertaining, happy and overly affectionate. They also can be frustrating, naughty and a handful!

Our first Labrador was happy to run as a younger dog and a five kilometer jog would pose no problems (though watch out if you get a black Lab as they get hot easily and exercise in summer had to be in the cool of the morning or once the sun went down). As he got older running with humans was something to pull a slightly hurt face about, but running with another dog was always something where reserves of energy could be found. Swimming is something Labs love and it is great exercise for them.

Our second Labrador is only seven months old and his running around has been limited to date given his age and has been contained to a dog park and at the neighbour's house with a Golden Retriever. I'm taking him on short walks at present and that seems to be enough. Not sure about his swimming ability and we'll test that out sooner or later.

A Labrador cannot run like a GSP. A GSP is built for it and as long as they are trained up, they can run and run and run. We had a GSP between Labrador 1 and Labrador 2 and she was indefatigable on a run. And she was fast. A Labrador could probably happily hike with you all day, but it can't run like a GSP or similar type of dog.

The first Lab used to go bananas over cats, small dogs and lizards. The cats thing was our youthful folly, the small dogs thing was their Napoleon syndrome (and their owner's willingness to let the little darlings run free) resulting in them getting in his face when he was young and lizards, well it moves so therefore I must kill it. He was a big dog (but not fat) and very strong and needed a halti to walk in public. He was great with sit and stay, in fact he was fantastic with both, but come was a take it or leave it proposition. Drop was much the same. He certainly needed more training on both those fronts. He wasn't a destructive Labrador. An apple tree, a hose and a pair of tracksuit pants was about it. And that was in the first two years. He was great with both our kids and my youngest loved him dearly (he was put down when the youngest was 18 months old) and was an affectionate and constant companion until the end and probably more so as he got older.

The second Lab is a work in progress. He has much the same sort of personality. I doubt he will be as big, but he is certainly strong. He is a bit more on the destructive side and sees pot plants as a challenge. So far so good on the cat front (owners are a bit older and wiser now) and he loves other dogs (big or small). He loves the kids, but the oldest is a bit more intolerant of his puppyish ways.

I think the key is training. While our first Labrador wasn't really a problem, he could have been better trained as a puppy. If we had the time, gun dog training would also be a good thing (they love it and it wears them out).

Best of luck.

[Chad]

My first lab Belle had the TPLO procedure for the same injury. A gentlemen I train with just had a TTA performed on his lab. All are expensive. I do not have pet insurance on my current chessie, but the more time I spend on this thread, the more I think I should.

One more fun fact, if your dog has the injury/procedure on one knee they are approximately 50% more likely to have it on the other knee.

All that being said, my next dog will be a shiny black duck fetching lab.

[holliscx]

All that being said, my next dog will be a shiny black duck fetching lab.

Stefanie Latham has a few duck dogs that fit that description. She's a fantastic breeder out of Franklin TN

Riverview Farm

[classtimesailer]

1. The Monks' books are the best. Get both of them. (maybe there are more than two now?)
2. Get Pet Health Insurance: Dogs get into stuff.
3. Hopefully your puppy stays with mom until at least 8 weeks (many pups are delivered before Mom has done her job.)
4. Use a crate.
5. Feed it good food minimal processing and additives (change the food before you treat ANY symptoms--GI or skin--with meds.)
6. Running your dog will not tire them out and make them more manageable. But do it anyway because they love it.


We've had lab mixes, two goldens, a poodle, and lately Portuguese water dogs. (Grooming is a PITA but I remain married.)

[j44ke]

#5 is key. If your dog has skin issues (more common evidently with pure-bred dogs,) take them to a vet who specializes in diet. Long ago I worked for a vet with that specialty, and it was uncanny how quickly she could get dog hair to grow back by switching up their diets. There was a fox terrier that obsessively pulled out its hair, and she put the dog on a rice, apple, cottage cheese and olive or fish oil (can't remember which) diet. Dog calmed down and hair grew back. Her Portuguese water dog was given to her by a client as a basket case. That dog ate only raw vegetables and you'd never know it once looked like a giant mole rat. She was a great vet.