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Thread: emotional laborers

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    Default emotional laborers

    Before becoming a business (bike shop) owner, the world looked very different to me than it now does. Many reasons make that the case, but my focus here is particularly on how nothing I did really put me in regular and frequent contact with complete strangers. The perspective this position has given me is invaluable, and I hope the corresponding struggle will in the end bear fruit for not only me, but also others. In specific, I refer to the struggle of providing attention to what seems like the lonely in my community and region when I have an overwhelming amount of other things to do. In various publications I've read about such "emotional labor" in many fields, mostly service. If you don't think it's real, please trust me when I say it absolutely is.

    Sometimes my business partner and I get the sense a person has entered our store only for the purpose of interacting with another human. Some customers say out loud that they shouldn't continue wasting our time, then stay and continue talking. Sometimes they say that multiple times in one visit throughout the course of an hour or more. Sometimes we have no clue what inspired whatever topic of which they speak.

    In many ways I'm a pushover. That partner encourages me to avoid eye contact more. My life's development makes that difficult for me, though. I know loneliness has been a growing, global problem for decades, and I've suffered it through much of my life, as well - maybe I still always do.

    So...I intend this thread as commiseration for others going through anything similar, but also as a request for advice. How might we make space for such people in our businesses in a way that doesn't lead to our business's slow death? Or how might we clearly communicate we don't have the time for it in a way that doesn't hurt them? I feel like I have much more important prompts here, but like I said in another thread, I'm feeling dumb and tired. Please, anyone, expand on this if you can.

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    Default Re: emotional laborers

    My grandfather was a doctor. He used to say you would not believe how much clothing people will remove in public when they find out you are a doctor. But they never want to come into the office because they “aren’t sick.” But by gum, they’ll go full birthday suit in the freezer aisle of the grocery.

    A psychiatrist friend of mine would tell you that you aren’t qualified to help your customers in this way any more than tangentially. And that this behavior of strangers over-sharing in stores is a form of drive-by codependency that isn’t as good for you in the long run as you might think.

    Keep a healthy distance. Physically for covid and emotionally for your own sense of balance. Talk to someone qualified to help you figure out what that distance is and how to get there.
    Last edited by j44ke; 02-20-2021 at 09:59 PM.

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    Default Re: emotional laborers

    It's heartless of me to say this, but leave your humanity at home when you come to work. Remember why you're there. If you're a therapist and that is what you are paid for do that. If not, don't. Best you can do is deflect and maybe direct them to avenues where what they need (group rides?) is available.

    I understand. I'm beyond neurotic. I'm who you talk about.
    Tom Ambros

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    Default Re: emotional laborers

    You say you have an overwhelming amount to do. Do it.

    There are people like me out there who don't, or would not describe it like that. We will take care of it.

    I lived in New York City for 27 years. There wasn't a day that went by I didn't stop to help a stranger.
    Jay Dwight

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    Default Re: emotional laborers

    Not a business owner, but for years my job in the navy had me able to hide in an office many hours, or leave the door open. I tended to leave it open, was often amazed by how many people had time to stop and chat, rarely about work, although that was often a pre-text topic that they use to enter. My last 5 years, this environment, had over 1200 people, about 160 who were direct reports, and it was about 5 individuals who consistently made use of my time, just to talk about things, that mattered to them. Very rarely the topic had some relation to work tasks (strife with coworker was #1 ) or mission. Because I had a boss, if simply saying I had to get X report done on the computer, etc didn't get them moving, then I could always excuse myself to make a visit to the command suite etc, and take that long walk slowly.

    When you are trapped in your own place, not sure the "nice" way to give them the hint, but I think a direct, "I'd love to chat, but I have x, and y, and then Z that must get done or I won't make payroll, etc".

    Of course the flip-side of this topic makes me think of John Prine's "Hello in There".

    I find it hard to make "small talk", but when my some did flag football I often forced myself to do so on several occasions, and after a tortuous first 5-10-15 minutes, I often had some very good conversations by asking the individual some specific open ended questions or drawing more detail from whatever walk of life they had lived that was foreign to me.

    Of course if folks are unloading heavy stuff on you about their depression, abuse, etc, that is another thing, and to some extent it is traumatic to hear bad stuff, so I' rapidly disengage on that: just my advice obviously

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    Default Re: emotional laborers

    Interesting issue. I'm in no way qualified to give advice, but at the risk of sounding trite, I'll throw this out there just the same: I'd try to be decent and friendly, but keep things a purely professional level (e.g. keep the vast majority of the conversation bike-related). If someone's taking too much of your time or emotional energy feel free to find a good way to end the conversation and move on to other stuff that needs to be done.

    The main reason I'm replying to this thread is that early this morning I had the exact opposite issue as I was checking out of Trader Joe's. The cashier might simply have been a bit chatty, but to be honest it got to the point where I was thinking "Dude, can you please just do your job and let me get out of here?" After some banter about whether I had found everything I needed he asked "Did you get anything you didn't need? As a worker here I find myself often getting more stuff than might be good for me..." (paraphrasing). OK, I can live with that, but the bit that IMO was bordering on prying was "So, any big plans for the weekend?" You can interpret that a number of different ways, from perfectly harmless all the way to a pick-up line, but either way, I had no interest in talking to the guy about what I was going to be doing this weekend. I found some way to deflect the question without giving a reply one way or another, then mercifully it was time to for me to swipe my credit card and get out of there.

    I guess the bottom line is that for some people, especially those who aren't as self-aware as they might be, or those who have a hard time reading the messages their getting during even the most casual conversation, it might not a simple job of gauging what's happening. On the other hand, to steal the title of a book I read ages ago in college, "life is with people" and we come in all sorts of shapes, sizes, and emotional needs, and dealing successfully and decently with other people, whether they be the ones closest to us or those we encounter for a few seconds, then never see again, is perhaps the most human thing we can do.

    Caleb, Good Luck to you and your shop.

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    Default Re: emotional laborers

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom View Post
    If you're a therapist and that is what you are paid for do that. If not, don't....
    Tom has an excellent point, and it works both ways, even for those of us who are therapists (I am a clinical psychologist). I get paid to talk to people in 50 minute (more or less) chunks, but, as you are likely aware, boundaries are very important in this field and I rarely go beyond that timeframe. I'm not a lawyer, and I don't bill on 15 minute increments (insurance wouldn't reimburse for it anyway). If I am not getting paid for something I'm doing, I minimize the time that I'm spending doing it, at the risk of going out of business (literally- you know the picture of that beautiful therapist's office on the Upper East Side? Yeah, that's not me). My boundaries are not only good for me, they're good for my patients, and I'm aware that small talk is not helping them. I have a job to do, and, while I truly want to help (why else would I have gone into this field?) I'm aware that discussing anything outside of our treatment goals isn't helping. I do engage in chatter as a means to get things going - but after that, all business.

    Often, I must make phone calls, especially to parents (I work with a lot of adolescents), and it's not uncommon that they will want to stay on the phone with me for quite a long time, drifting into all sorts of territory that has little to do with working with their kid. And I try to be as clear as possible: "I understand that you need to talk about XXX, but as you know, I allow 20 minutes for phone calls, so I'd like to keep talking about Vanessa's behavior at home" (note that with adolescents, I usually rotate in a parent session every 3-5 sessions with the kid, and I can bill for this, so that's a chance for parents to talk a little more at length about things, and I can get paid for it). Simply put, if I talked to people on the phone as long as they wanted to talk, without finding a means to get reimbursed for it, I'd be out of business right quick.

    I joke (somewhat seriously) that, even doing what I do, I find advice-giving somewhat anathema (people need to, over time, find their own solutions). But you're looking for advice, so here's mine. If you are temperamentally inclined, and you have the time, and you derive meaning out of chatting with people who wander into your store, have at it. If it doesn't overlap with your income, go for it. But I'm guessing from your OP that it does. So it's perfectly ok to say "I'm sure you would understand, I need to get back to work now, nice talking to you." All but the most seriously personality-disordered would understand this and not feel offended.

    And that brings me to my last point, I guess. I don't think this is terribly adjacent to the OP, but in the specific case that you're chatting with someone a bit.. well, characterological, as we say, to begin with - you have neither the tools nor the training to deal with THAT, and, again, short of a lot of clinical training, setting a simple boundary is the best way to help. I don't mean to come across as condescending or snarky - there are those among us who spend a lifetime working with people with personality disorders, and even these people get unhinged and frustrated with this population. I certainly find myself struggling with such people, and, if I sniff it during the initial session, I'll refer them to someone with more experience.

    So that's my two cents. Neither of us are under any moral or ethical obligation to perform such emotional labor at the expense of our own incomes, and it doesn't make you any less caring as a human being.

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    Default Re: emotional laborers

    Just a bit of advice I gained from a wise bird when dealing with folks who lack adequate boundaries. You are not impolite, even as a business owner speaking to a customer, to say what your own boundaries are. For instance "My friend, I love your passion and as much as I'd like to spend the afternoon talking about your cats it would be derelict of me to neglect fixing customers bicycles and sweeping the floor".

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    Default Re: emotional laborers

    We have a “buddy system” at work when we know we may not get out of a patient’s room. A quick knock on the door and consult on “something important”. Don’t know how often you have two or more in the shop, but some sort of signal and may help you move on.

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    Default Re: emotional laborers

    My $0.02...I’ve made a living in the commercial/institutional construction industry for the past 30 years or so, essentially listening to my clients and offering advice...when needed. I learn as much as I can about their life/business goals and aspirations, learn about their families and seek to find out what’s important to them. I take their calls at odd hours of the day, I hop in a plane when it makes sense and I’ve learned that when someone is frazzled, you better be prepared to unfrazzle them, or at least let them know that you’ll work on a plan to unfrazzle. Picking up the phone helps too, as I’ve come to appreciate that the phone does more than take great photos.

    Yeah, I’m an engineer and I deal with other engineers, architects, a myriad of consultants and our staff, we design and construct their buildings, find sites for them, deal with planning, zoning and building permits, go to the mat with underperforming vendors and contractors and do just about everything other than change their oil. But at the end of the day, the personal relationship with the individual takes us through the tough times and allows us to soar even higher through the good times. An overwhelming percentage (85% over the past ten years) of our work comes from repeat client relationships and the new work relies heavily on those past/current client relationships as references.

    If you want to be in a service industry imho, open your ears, be prepared to listen and show that your client means something to you beyond a source of income. There are awesome firms out there in all industries and competition is fierce. If you don’t take the time to listen, learn and genuinely care, get in line and become a commodity.
    rw saunders
    hey, how lucky can one man get.

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    Default Re: emotional laborers

    Quote Originally Posted by Todd Amunrud View Post
    some sort of signal
    We had a wonderfully simple cue back when I was a bandleader and needed to be politely disengaged from a conversation, either with prospective employees during an audition, or fans [sic] at a show:

    If I took my glasses off, that was a surefire signal to my bandmates that they should interrupt with "something important". Because my bandmates -- and only they -- knew that I really couldn't see two feet in front of my face without those glasses!

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    Default Re: emotional laborers

    This is a great read :: Talking to Strangers by Malcolm Gladwell. Not exactly relevant to the discussion here, but a good read none the less.

    As others have said, you have to set boundaries. I've seen this type of behavior in shops before, and when I had my wheel shop I occasionally had to deal with it myself. Heck, I've caught myself overstaying my welcome! "Well it's been great talking with you, but I've really got to get this _____ done before this customer comes in to pick it up." That sort of thing. The buddy system is a great idea. We do that here at my current job, there's one guy who will waste your time all day if you let him, so if we notice he's been in someone's office too long we'll call that person and tell them we need them to come look at something.

    My wife is a nurse practitioner, works in a general family practice doctors office. I'm amazed at how much she deals with people's emotional issues vs physical issues.
    Dustin Gaddis
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    Default Re: emotional laborers

    I thought this was a bird dog thread. I read the title as emotional labradors.

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    Default Re: emotional laborers

    Quote Originally Posted by holliscx View Post
    I thought this was a bird dog thread. I read the title as emotional labradors.
    You did not misread.

    The "rescue" protocol comes in every form. At the coal mine we, the dogs, had a system to key the 2 way radios that alerted us to which supervisor was coming our way and how fast we need to A. Block them from driving over our work because they were mostly blind to what we actually do (working with dangerous things on open ground) or B. Wake up

    R.W. that is a tee shirt "If you don’t take the time to listen, learn and genuinely care, get in line and become a commodity. " or at least the nascent beginning of your Ted Talk.
    Last edited by Too Tall; 02-22-2021 at 02:54 PM.

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    Default Re: emotional laborers

    Josh I'm not sure if this is OT but my dad never talks of Vietnam. He was a commander on an aircraft carrier and has described riding in a john boat through canals. They had a dog in their boat that they would feed cans of food first because the dog would smell by wind I assume the Viet Cong and alert them in the boat. Not sure what made my brain connect this. Apologies for the thread drift and hope I haven't triggered PTSD but only mentioned because my dad has been so tight lipped about Nam for his whole life.

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    Default Re: emotional laborers

    Quote Originally Posted by holliscx View Post
    Josh I'm not sure if this is OT but my dad never talks of Vietnam. He was a commander on an aircraft carrier and has described riding in a john boat through canals. They had a dog in their boat that they would feed cans of food first because the dog would smell by wind I assume the Viet Cong and alert them in the boat. Not sure what made my brain connect this. Apologies for the thread drift and hope I haven't triggered PTSD but only mentioned because my dad has been so tight lipped about Nam for his whole life.
    Powerful stuff H. Interesting you picked up on the vibe. I was taught my trade by Vietnam Vets...and the fine State of Wy. of course.

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    Default Re: emotional laborers

    Under the current conditions I have gone for weeks without seeing or talking to any of my cronies. So I imagine if I got the opportunity to chat I might overdo it.
    I do know a few people in the restaurant and liquor business and we exchange pleasantries. If the're not busy I might chat for awhile because they are going through a tough time.
    But you are under no obligation to allow them to keep you from your work. Politely excuse yourself.
    I saw one of my older neighbors the other day who seemed upset. Her pooch had just passed away.
    I felt really bad and the next day I took her a tin of chocolate and had a chat with her in the hallway.
    It was long but I think we both needed to unload on someone.
    Be polite and know when it's time to move on even if the other person doesn't.

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    Default Re: emotional laborers

    I worked at B&J's Bicycle Shop in San Antonio Texas in the early '90's and daily had to navigate among conversations that would last a bit longer than I anticipated. BUT, I always realized I was in a customer service role and if that meant talking with customers ad nauseum about less than interesting topics (no "heavy" stuff) then so be it. I hoped it was a time investment that would pay off later.

    I've been in retail situations that seemed to want nothing but to take your money and shoo you out the door. I guess I erred in the opposite extreme, but repeat traffic was huge.

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    Default Re: emotional laborers

    Dear purveyors of bicycle . If was ever "that customer" please forgive me, I'm better now.

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    Default Re: emotional laborers

    Quote Originally Posted by johnmdesigner View Post
    Under the current conditions I have gone for weeks without seeing or talking to any of my cronies. So I imagine if I got the opportunity to chat I might overdo it.
    I do know a few people in the restaurant and liquor business and we exchange pleasantries. If the're not busy I might chat for awhile because they are going through a tough time.
    But you are under no obligation to allow them to keep you from your work. Politely excuse yourself.
    I saw one of my older neighbors the other day who seemed upset. Her pooch had just passed away.
    I felt really bad and the next day I took her a tin of chocolate and had a chat with her in the hallway.
    It was long but I think we both needed to unload on someone.
    Be polite and know when it's time to move on even if the other person doesn't.
    This is the good work.
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