The Vaccine Thread

[Saab2000]

I don't think the same dynamic is at play in Germany. Less than 12 months ago, they were a model of pandemic response. The situation is interesting as the Mediterranean (Portugal, Spain, France and Italy) and Scandinavian (Sweden trailing) countries have high uptake relative to Germany and Austria.

I can’t say for sure, but my sister-in-law, who is German (but currently lives in the US) and my ex-wife, who is German-speaking Swiss (and also a great friend and confidant and whom I visited in August in Switzerland) report that it’s similar to what I observe in the United States. She’s vaccinated but wants everything to re-open because she’s a businesswoman whose livelihood depends on in-person commerce. She’s very common sense and believes the science but also believes the world can’t live indoors and isolated forever. That’s probably a topic for another thread though.


I’m glad she is vaxxed, as are all my nephews and former in-laws over there. Except one. Who believe he’s young and strong and won’t get it. He’s definitely the first two. I hope the third remains true.

[Octave]

I did a quick search of the thread but didn't find anything related to this question, so I'll post it here:

Has anyone seen any trusworthy information on whether there are benefits (or downsides) to mixing the booster relative to your first shot(s)?

Mine were the two Pfizer shots two (or was it three?) weeks apart, so I'm wondering about the next step.

TIA

Here, written in relatively plain language, is a now-accepted argument for the mix-and-match approach to vaccines.

The largest benefit appears to be from those who have received the J&J vaccine initially, and then go on to receive a Pfizer vaccine as a booster. The long-term efficacy and lasting power of these combinations remain to be determined. What is pretty universally agreed upon is that there is no real downside to mixing vaccines, and there is almost certainly increased protection from the mixing.

[Doug Fattic]

The wife of one of my former framebuilding class students had to have a tumor removed from her brain yesterday. They are raising 4 adopted kids. The surgery was successful (although it took 2 hours longer than expected because of complications). You can imagine how freaked out he was/is. But here is the thing, there was no space for her after her surgery in the regular intensive care units because it was all full with Covid patients. My wife is a nurse in the Western Michigan hospital system and they sent out a bulletin saying 95% of those in ICU are there because of Covid. Protecting others should be a strong motive to get vaccinated and wear a mask. That need alone should be enough to take action.

[beeatnik]

Doug, that's awful. My wife's cancer surgery was postponed for 3 months last summer as no "elective" surgeries were being performed in Los Angeles County. Speaking of, my sister's father in law, who's visiting, lives in the "Upper Peninsula." Is Western Michigan the same region? Do you know the county where your student lives? My sister's FIL has Parkinson's so he's high risk. Might be better for him to stay in LA until next Spring. Looks like the situation in Michigan has worsened in the last week or two, 70 cases per 100k; LA's at 12.

https://covidactnow.org/us/michigan-mi/?s=25621473
Michigan has reported having 2,580 staffed adult ICU beds. 1,442 are filled by non-COVID patients and 689 are filled by COVID patients. Overall, 2,131 out of 2,580 (83%) are filled. This suggests hospitals may not be well positioned to absorb a wave of new COVID infections without substantial surge capacity. Caution is warranted.

Los Angeles County, California has reported having 1,995 staffed adult ICU beds. 1,312 are filled by non-COVID patients and 160 are filled by COVID patients. Overall, 1,472 out of 1,995 (74%) are filled. This suggests some ability to absorb an increase in COVID cases.

[Chik]

Interesting hypothesis on a defence enzyme called APOBEC3A that attacks RNA viruses: What’s behind the rapid disappearance of the delta variant in Japan? It could be self-extinction.

The infection and hospitalisation rates in Japan plummeted in the lead-up to the election. I admit that not a few mates and I suspected that the numbers were being manipulated to make the ruling party look good. However, the numbers continue to drop after the election.

OTOH, infection rate in South Korea is currently surging, following a relaxing of social distancing rules. As such, I'm not sure how much weight I would give the hypothesis regarding the enzyme and Delta self-destructing.

NB, the linked article was lifted from the Japan Times web site, which is behind a pay wall. As such, you will see several odd lines in-between paragraphs; they are captions for the photos displayed on the Japan Times site.

[Doug Fattic]

Doug, that's awful. My wife's cancer surgery was postponed for 3 months last summer as no "elective" surgeries were being performed in Los Angeles County. Speaking of, my sister's father in law, who's visiting, lives in the "Upper Peninsula." Is Western Michigan the same region? Do you know the county where your student lives? My sister's FIL has Parkinson's so he's high risk. Might be better for him to stay in LA until next Spring. Looks like the situation in Michigan has worsened in the last week or two, 70 cases per 100k; LA's at 12.

https://covidactnow.org/us/michigan-mi/?s=25621473
Michigan has reported having 2,580 staffed adult ICU beds. 1,442 are filled by non-COVID patients and 689 are filled by COVID patients. Overall, 2,131 out of 2,580 (83%) are filled. This suggests hospitals may not be well positioned to absorb a wave of new COVID infections without substantial surge capacity. Caution is warranted.

Los Angeles County, California has reported having 1,995 staffed adult ICU beds. 1,312 are filled by non-COVID patients and 160 are filled by COVID patients. Overall, 1,472 out of 1,995 (74%) are filled. This suggests some ability to absorb an increase in COVID cases.

We both live in Berrien County which is in the very southwest corner just above South Bend IN and Notre Dame university. Our local hospital system now includes the whole west side of the lower peninsula. This is the system where my wife got her information. We are a very long way from the upper peninsula (350 miles to the Mackinaw Bridge between the 2 peninsulas). BTW, those that live or were born in the UP call themselves Yoopers. My student texted me today with an update and said the surgery got more complicated because the tumor was wrapped around a blood vessel so it couldn't all come out. They will monitor and use radiation if necessary in the future. We organized a small bike ride last Friday to show support and will do so again when that can be helpful.

[colker]

The wife of one of my former framebuilding class students had to have a tumor removed from her brain yesterday. They are raising 4 adopted kids. The surgery was successful (although it took 2 hours longer than expected because of complications). You can imagine how freaked out he was/is. But here is the thing, there was no space for her after her surgery in the regular intensive care units because it was all full with Covid patients. My wife is a nurse in the Western Michigan hospital system and they sent out a bulletin saying 95% of those in ICU are there because of Covid. Protecting others should be a strong motive to get vaccinated and wear a mask. That need alone should be enough to take action.

Vaccines should be mandatory.

[beeatnik]

Vaccines should be mandatory.

De facto mandate in Ireland? 95% is essentially universal.

https://www.independent.ie/world-new...&utm_content=A

Tánaiste Leo Varadkar has said the 5pc of the population who are not vaccinated against Covid-19 are causing “a lot of the trouble”.

Speaking on CNN Connect the World in Abu Dhabi, Mr Varadkar said the unvaccinated population can create an “awful lot of difficulty”.

“It is a difficult situation, things were going so well. I think as a nation we’re a little bit heartbroken that we’re back into a difficult space when it comes to Covid. We do have among the highest vaccinations rates in the world, around 94pc of adults are fully vaccinated.

“Unfortunately, the 5pc that are not are causing a lot of the trouble, about 5pc are not fully vaccinated but about 50pc of people in hospital and ICU are not fully vaccinated. So even that 5pc can create an awful lot of difficulty,” he said.

“I hope not we’re going to reassess the situation in about two weeks' time and see if cases have stabilised. I’ve always said that I felt we need to get through another winter before we can say that this pandemic is safely behind us, and this may become a problem that we have to deal with every winter,” he said.

When asked whether the Government would consider restrictions solely for the unvaccinated, he said ultimately vaccination is a “personal choice”.

“We’ve never done that and to be honest we’re reluctant to do that. One of the things our Constitution does is protect people’s right to a livelihood. Ultimately it is a personal choice and questions around bodily autonomy and personal freedom do matter.

“But what I would say to people who are not vaccinated, 5pc of our population is unvaccinated and if everyone was vaccinated, we wouldn’t be imposing the restrictions we are now.

[bironi]

Ed Yong wrote a good piece in the Atlantic within the last couple days detailing stories about the 25% of medical workers abandoning their profession since the Covid's arrival in the U.S.

[thollandpe]

Ed Yong wrote a good piece in the Atlantic within the last couple days detailing stories about the 25% of medical workers abandoning their profession since the Covid's arrival in the U.S.

WHY HEALTH-CARE WORKERS ARE QUITTING IN DROVES
About one in five health-care workers has left their job since the pandemic started. This is their story—and the story of those left behind.

[Morris Taub]

Got the shots as much for family, friends, and strangers on public transportation and in food stores shopping as I did it so I wouldn't die.

Had covid in October of 2020. Rapid heart beat saw me go to hospital in emergency, and I tested positive. My cardiac problems were the weak point the virus attacked. At this point there were no vaccines. Just masks and hand washing and distancing.

Was in hospital for close to three weeks. About three days of high fever. Was on a cortisone drip and antibiotic drip. About 15 days to recover from and finally test negative. Another week or so of observation due to my cardiac problems.

I feel lucky to be here. I was overweight, 65, and have cardiac problems since I turned 45. Familial stuff.

Got my first shot in april 2021. Only needed one at that time because i had a high count of antibodies from the virus. Got my booster 4 november. If I need another shot in 6 months or a year I won't hesitate.

Oh, both shots were pfizer. Sore arm near shot. A couple days of fatigue. That's it.

peace to you all, stay healthy...

[bironi]

WHY HEALTH-CARE WORKERS ARE QUITTING IN DROVES
About one in five health-care workers has left their job since the pandemic started. This is their story—and the story of those left behind.

Sorry, I should have said 20%.
By

[zetroc]

Vaccines should be mandatory.

Yes they should.

[beeatnik]

Mr. Cortez, I would also like vaccines to be "mandatory." In fact, I wouldn't be against forced vaccination (similar to forced abortions in China back during the one child era). Then following periods of continued transmission, suffering and death (at lower rates, of course), maybe, possibly, our society would be forced to provide nutritious meals and pollution free environments to residents of the inner city (lowering known Covid risk at the environmental and biological level), humane care to the elderly, and, finally, elite level Pasadena Poly $50k/year educations to every person in Central CA, Navajo AZ and West Virginia to guarantee future affluence and low morbidity.

[colker]

Mr. Cortez, I would also like vaccines to be "mandatory." In fact, I wouldn't be against forced vaccination (similar to forced abortions in China back during the one child era). Then following periods of continued transmission, suffering and death (at lower rates, of course), maybe, possibly, our society would be forced to provide nutritious meals and pollution free environments to residents of the inner city (lowering known Covid risk at the environmental and biological level), humane care to the elderly, and, finally, elite level Pasadena Poly $50k/year educations to every person in Central CA, Navajo AZ and West Virginia to guarantee future affluence and low morbidity.

It´s similar to any safety measures. No one is free to threaten the safety of others. There is no choice.

[thollandpe]

Comparing a mandatory vaccination policy to forced abortions is absurd, @beeatnik!

The rest of your ideas — food and a safe environment, heath care, and education — I’m backing you up on those.

[colker]

Comparing a mandatory vaccination policy to forced abortions is absurd, @beeatnik!

The rest of your ideas — food and a safe environment, heath care, and education — I’m backing you up on those.

Even then, quality of living and death risks are different issues.

[Scott G.]

It´s similar to any safety measures. No one is free to threaten the safety of others. There is no choice.

Hmmm, maybe Colker has something, self defence law, "Stand your ground" but with a Moderna loaded dart gun.

[monadnocky]

Here in New Hampshire cases are at an all time high. Not "since last January" or "since the beginning of the Delta surge." As in, ever. And it appears that the percentage of individuals being hospitalized who have been vaccinated is rising a bit - from about 10% to about 25% (this according to our state epidemiologist, interviewed last night on the local news). Note that I'm just presenting this as fact - this is NOT meant to be supporting a rationale to not get vaccinated (I am, have been, and will always be completely pro-vax). It's just really, really scary stuff how we can't get on top of this thing.

Check out the graph here:
https://www.covid19.nh.gov/

And Thanksgiving is next week. Terrifying.

[fastupslowdown]

Getting my booster today, I hope

Wondering if the Pfizer or Moderna booster work any differently. I say this because the scientific community seems split on why the anti-body level of Moderna is superior after the 2nd shot, with debate on whether its due to the larger Moderna gap between 1st and 2nd dose versus a larger vial on Moderna.

With both boosters occuring now at six months and Moderna making the booster dose 50% of the 1st and 2nd , I'm speculating there will not any efficacy difference

-Mike G