The Vaccine Thread

[beeatnik]

Been to an oncologist on two separate intervals in excess of 50 treatments. See anybody smoking anywhere near? Not one goddamn time.

A lot of this boils down to something someone said jokingly to me years ago. "Who you gonna believe? Me or your lying eyes?"

It's more common in the inner city. Trust. But that's not the point...

[ctak]

Well then, we hope you choose to expand your participation elsewhere. It is what make this forum's world go around.

On the YouTube reposts, understand that without being able to establish credibility or factual basis of what is said or who is saying it on a lot of these videos, they are difficult to process as source material.

"we hope you choose"
Do you say the same to members who endorse your opinions? Am I about to be censored for citing non-mainstream ideas about Covid?

[jimcav]

Same. It is particularly concerning to me how emotionally invested / intolerant many vaccine-or-bust folks are given big pharmas track record of making false claims.

Best response I've seen to the question - are you vaccinated?

Herpes? that's an insultingly stupid false comparison.

One can have issues with big pharma, just as some may have issues with VW's Nazi-era links, but neither previous bad-acts necessitate that a current product isn't safe and reliable. Unlike being anti-VW, where you can just get a competing product from a non-Nazi associated car maker; there isn't an equivalent option for a COVID vaccine. Moderna isn't big pharma anyway.

[ctak]

Herpes? that's an insultingly stupid false comparison.

One can have issues with big pharma, just as some may have issues with VW's Nazi-era links, but neither previous bad-acts necessitate that a current product isn't safe and reliable. Unlike being anti-VW, where you can just get a competing product from a non-Nazi associated car maker; there isn't an equivalent option for a COVID vaccine. Moderna isn't big pharma anyway.

Many, many bad acts again and again - Pfizer and J&J collectively have dealt with thousands of lawsuits. It makes a lot more sense to expect more "illegal claims" going forward. Wasn't it Einstein who is credited with saying something along the lines of: "insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results"?

[j44ke]

"we hope you choose"
Do you say the same to members who endorse your opnions? Am I about to be censored for citing a non-mainstream idea about Covid?

What? Where did that come from?

If you look through the "pages" here, you will find that we periodically - as moderators - encourage participants to expand their horizons in the hopes that they will help create the accumulated content that is the focus of this forum. You are welcome to continue to post in this thread here, assuming of course that you continue to be a respectful member of the discussion. That's the only time we might take issue - not ideas but respect for others involved in the discussion. But you can talk politics and epidemiology anywhere. Richard Sachs' philosophy on bike fit - that's just here. And on his website. And a few other places. We got a lot of stuff, that's all I am saying. You're invited.

[ctak]

What? Where did that come from?

If you look through the "pages" here, you will find that we periodically - as moderators - encourage participants to expand their horizons in the hopes that they will help create the accumulated content that is the focus of this forum. You are welcome to continue to post in this thread here, assuming of course that you continue to be a respectful member of the discussion. That's the only time we might take issue - not ideas but respect for others involved in the discussion. But you can talk politics and epidemiology anywhere. Richard Sachs' philosophy on bike fit - that's just here. And on his website. And a few other places. We got a lot of stuff, that's all I am saying. You're invited.

Sure I get that. One can disagree while being respectful... unlike jimcav's "insultingly stupid false comparison" comment.

[j44ke]

Sure I get that. One can disagree while being respectful... unlike jimcav's "insultingly stupid false comparison" comment.

I'll let him answer for himself, but my impression was that he was referencing the video content, not you personally.

[htwoopup]

Gonna jump back in here with a different take on “insulting”.

Spent a couple of hours with the daughter of a dear friend this evening. She is a physician assistant at an ICU in the NY metro area. She started work right out of her medical training in February of last year just at the start of the ICU’s here getting swamped.

The hours we spent together were all her crying on my shoulder about how torn and conflicted she and those other professionals she works with are.

She said it is distressing and insulting that they are working so hard and RISKING THEIR OWN LIVES fighting to keep people alive who they wouldn’t have come across as patients at this time if these people had just done the right thing and gotten vaccinated.

She is not the only one in her world who is absolutely distraught at pouring their hearts, souls, brains, and emotions into doing all they can to save people who couldn’t even do the simplest thing to take care of themselves and got themselves into this situation.

She just hopes people understand that at some point medical professionals will lose the ability to care because there are people who obviously don’t care about them as evidenced by the insult inherent in their refusal to take care of themselves.

[jimcav]

I'll let him answer for himself, but my impression was that he was referencing the video content, not you personally.

True that! While I might question the motive of the post, I wasn’t commenting about the postee, but rather the ridiculous and stupid content in the comparison made in the YouTube vid. I saw individuals actively discriminated against in the navy for HIV status, but that was a failure of a very different sort, and would also be a similarly false comparison. This is a highly transmissible virus, by the simple and impossible to avoid act of breathing. There isn’t actually a good comparison in 1st world America. Measles could substitute in some possible, potentially better video, except most adults have had MMR and don’t pitch a fit about showing evidence of MMR status in situations that warrant it.

[Todd Amunrud]

Time for a story.

I was in my third year of medical school and rounding on a post op heart patient. I can’t remember what he had done, but it was related to a long history of smoking. The cardiologist finished up describing how things went and the patient asks to go out for a smoke. The cardiologist then asks what he does for enjoyment. He states he builds furniture and they talk for a bit. It sounds like he creates very nice pieces of heirloom furniture. The cardiologist then asks if he’d make something for him. Sure, he can make him a really nice rocking chair. The cardiologist then tells him after he gets it home he’ll destroy it with a hammer. The guy looks back puzzled. The cardiologist tells him that’s what it feels like if you’d like to destroy my work with a smoke.

In my opinion, that’s how many of us immersed in this feel about things right now…

[j44ke]

This has become part of the political discussion as Rep. Greene of Alabama has been asked about her vaccination status in light of her comments on door-to-door health workers and the destruction of 65,000 expired doses in Alabama.

But I wonder if her vaccination status is material to the discussion really. Challenging her on a "you talk the talk but do you walk the walk" basis might feel good, but shouldn't her publically espoused views be enough to evaluate her politics?

I guess on a day to day level, you can ask if someone is vaccinated. There are times and places to ask for that information and diplomatic ways of doing so. I'm not sure you can expect an answer, but part of asking is qualifying the nature of the moment and what sort of exchange is involved, what role that information has in the exchange and what the shared responsibilities are. It seems to me it has to be an honorable question.

[takashi]

This has become part of the political discussion as Rep. Greene of Alabama has been asked about her vaccination status in light of her comments on door-to-door health workers and the destruction of 65,000 expired doses in Alabama.

But I wonder if her vaccination status is material to the discussion really. Challenging her on a "you talk the talk but do you walk the walk" basis might feel good, but shouldn't her publically espoused views be enough to evaluate her politics?

I guess on a day to day level, you can ask if someone is vaccinated. There are times and places to ask for that information and diplomatic ways of doing so. I'm not sure you can expect an answer, but part of asking is qualifying the nature of the moment and what sort of exchange is involved, what role that information has in the exchange and what the shared responsibilities are. It seems to me it has to be an honorable question.

Ok, so is beeatnik vaccinated or not?

[BBB]

This has become part of the political discussion as Rep. Greene of Alabama has been asked about her vaccination status in light of her comments on door-to-door health workers and the destruction of 65,000 expired doses in Alabama.

But I wonder if her vaccination status is material to the discussion really. Challenging her on a "you talk the talk but do you walk the walk" basis might feel good, but shouldn't her publically espoused views be enough to evaluate her politics?

I guess on a day to day level, you can ask if someone is vaccinated. There are times and places to ask for that information and diplomatic ways of doing so. I'm not sure you can expect an answer, but part of asking is qualifying the nature of the moment and what sort of exchange is involved, what role that information has in the exchange and what the shared responsibilities are. It seems to me it has to be an honorable question.

In Australia, aside from health care workers, the Federal Government in Australia has decided to leave the decision to require employees to be vaccinated to employers.

However, as things start to move back towards some semblance of normal, vaccination will be another issue to divide people. Want to travel overseas? Better be vaccinated. Go to a major sporting event? Ditto.

It seems to me that someone like Greene is appealing to the very people who will be marginalised by the vaccination process. Are we going to see camo wearing white men totting assault rifles to force entry into a sporting event for the unvaccinated? In this context, and recalling the recent action of camo wearing white men, the question about Greene's vaccination status is probably relevant if via it decided that vaccination is the ticket to sitting in Congress etc.

[beeatnik]

Ok, so is beeatnik vaccinated or not?

I am and I’m ambivalent about it.



If my wife didn’t have anxiety about being a cancer survivor we’d strongly reevaluate our risk calculus. Or put another way neither one of us feels any moral superiority or benevolence in our decisions.

[Mark Kelly]

In Australia, aside from health care workers, the Federal Government in Australia has decided to leave the decision to require employees to be vaccinated to employers.

To do otherwise might mean Scotty from Marketing taking responsibility for an actual decision, we can't have that.

Mandatory vaccination has been in place for years in the meat industry here because Q fever is endemic in several types of livestock. The rules also apply to government officials whose jobs require them to visit meatworks; they must have the appropriate vaccinations or they're not allowed in.

[BBB]

To do otherwise might mean Scotty from Marketing taking responsibility for an actual decision, we can't have that.

Mandatory vaccination has been in place for years in the meat industry here because Q fever is endemic in several types of livestock. The rules also apply to government officials whose jobs require them to visit meatworks; they must have the appropriate vaccinations or they're not allowed in.

Yes that's right. A non-decision decision to minimise any political fall-out and to leave it all at the feet of employers. As he has told us, he doesn't hold a hose, mate.

[Too Tall]

Risk Assessment: you, the virus and your risk exposure >>> https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tra...tatracker-home

From the get go I've considered my risk based on where I am and how my immediate community is affected. Above is a tool, consider using it to gain insight.

[sk_tle]

I finally got access to vaccination last week. Got the single Jenssen shot. Having recovered from Covid in january I thought my immunitary system was ready and it would be piece of cake. Nope, 24h of fever and feeling like crap for a bit more. Gut feeling is this mean that the reinfection risk is quite high, vaccinated or not and we might need recurring vaccination.

But maybe I am just showing why people without a medecine degree should just shut their mouth.

[rwsaunders]

On a trip to Chicago about two months ago, I was making small talk through a mask and a plexiglass screen with the hotel registration clerk while checking in and I inquired if she was able to be vaccinated. She told me that she wasn’t going to, as her grandmother told her that J&J couldn’t even produce safe baby powder and that the Pfizer jab had traces of Fentanyl in it. I thought that she was joking and asked her what she thought of the Moderna jab, as that was what I had received and she responded that she wasn’t aware of any issues yet. I’ve encountered similar responses (distrust of the product and process) from a number of people that I’ve dealt with while traveling and my simple advice to them, has been to seek out a medical professional that they have confidence in and have an adult discussion about the subject matter.

[ldamelio]

Thomas - your reaction likely reflects that you had residual antibodies from your January infection. How strong this residual immunity was - no one will ever know.

For everyone - there is now mounting evidence that the immunity from infection wanes over time. The unvaccinated previously infected are more vulnerable to reinfection than the fully vaccinated who never had the disease are to first time infection. Just another data point possibly useful in discussions with those declining vaccination on the basis of previous infection.