The Vaccine Thread

[beeatnik]

It is coals to Newcastle expressing my personal and very sincere appreciation.

That is all.

Wear a fuckin' mask if asked.

Some of those that burn crosses...

ACAB when they're trying to oppress us


But not when they're trying to protect us


Fury unmasked!


Winter is going to be a trip.

(this is a metapost for a metafuture)

[BBB]

This thread is starting to get nuts.

Vaccination and wearing a mask is common sense and not a political statement one way or the other. It's not about freedom of speech or "rights".

Presumably we all want to get back to something approaching "normal", or circa 2019, at some point in the near future.

[Matthew Strongin]

Right, so freedom of speech (which I'll assume most people here would support) is great...until it's a different opinion, then it's either stupid or charity on behalf of the mods?

I expect healthy discussion. I don't expect, nor support, the majority of you all attacking and labeling people, marginalizing them and their opinions the very second anyone steps out of line. The sense of entitlement, and ignorance of said entitlement, is hilarious. You guys are the reason why people dislike cyclists and have a poor view of them as arrogant and elitist. Cyclists like myself have to constantly defend ourselves because of a few fools.

You exemplify exactly my point- a mindset of unwavering intolerance bordering on straight up fascism towards anything "other" than an extreme liberal stance.

Finally- Ripped to shreds? Lol. Passive aggressive much? How about you make a coherent counter argument? I fully invite you to do the ripping, hoss.

You clearly don't like it here. Why stay? Many of us on this forum use it as a virtual outlet to hang out because we don't see each other often enough in real life. Free speech has nothing to do with you being able to state an opinion on a web forum with freedom from an opposing viewpoint. And the reason people dislike cyclists has nothing to do with a web forum debate on masks and vaccination. If you want to become part of the community here, I would recommend you spend a lot more time outside the political threads. But if posts like this continue to be how you spend your time, I really don't know why you bother.

[j44ke]

General comment not in response to Matt or anyone else's:

I often don't understand Beetnik's posts at first or second read, so sometimes I have to read and reread what he's saying to understand how the statistics he has posted relate to the comments he makes. And then also to understand the comments. The graphs very often defeat me (damn you graphic artist graphing grad students!) But I think he is doing a good job at least trying to line up some of his questions alongside the data points that perplex him the most. And he appears to be reading more than anyone I know on this topic, so even when people disagree with him or with his sources, they at least have to do some reading of their own in order to respond. And thinking. Or rely on their expertise in the field, and I know we have some people here involved in this epidemic daily. I see all this as a win-win here.

I've been following this ongoing series of conversations in New York Magazine. I've found them interesting. And while they are not truly saying anything revolutionary, they appear to cut through some of the fuzzy math involved in things like "90% effective" and so forth. Also a bit fewer graphs and the ones they have I can figure out what is on the X and Y axis. Doesn't mean they are correct or accurate or represent the ultimate truth. Anyway, if you haven't already been poaching articles on New York Magazine in August, you should be able to read this. Like I said, I thought it was interesting. The rest you can decide on for yourself.

[takashi]

some of those that burn crosses...

Acab when they're trying to oppress us


but not when they're trying to protect us


fury unmasked!


Winter is going to be a trip.

(this is a metapost for a metafuture)

lol

[johnmdesigner]

Right, so freedom of speech (which I'll assume most people here would support) is great...until it's a different opinion, then it's either stupid or charity on behalf of the mods?

I expect healthy discussion. I don't expect, nor support, the majority of you all attacking and labeling people, marginalizing them and their opinions the very second anyone steps out of line. The sense of entitlement, and ignorance of said entitlement, is hilarious. You guys are the reason why people dislike cyclists and have a poor view of them as arrogant and elitist. Cyclists like myself have to constantly defend ourselves because of a few fools.

You exemplify exactly my point- a mindset of unwavering intolerance bordering on straight up fascism towards anything "other" than an extreme liberal stance.

Finally- Ripped to shreds? Lol. Passive aggressive much? How about you make a coherent counter argument? I fully invite you to do the ripping, hoss.

I haven’t ridden my bike in well over a year so I probably don’t even qualify as a cyclist anymore.
But my martini intake is well above average.
I like to come here sometimes to listen to the chatter both the sensible and the batshit crazy.
That’s what makes the world interesting.
I wear a mask and I got a shot. It really wasn’t that hard and I didn’t grow flippers or a second head.
Arguing for the sake of arguing is just silly.

[j44ke]

And Sen. Lindsey Graham tests positive. Vaccinated in December.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...ugh-infection/

[thollandpe]

Except that it's not. You all seem to live in a theoretical bubble where you completely ignore the real world.

Real life is not a lab test…

Here’s some real-life fluid dynamics for you.

Put on a dust mask (not a respirator that’s been tested for fit, just a humble dust mask) and have at it for 15 minutes with an orbital sander on a piece of wood, painted sheet metal, whatever.

Then blow your nose, note the effluent.

Then have at it again for 15 minutes, blow your nose, report back with the results.

[thollandpe]

Except that it's not. You all seem to live in a theoretical bubble where you completely ignore the real world.

Real life is not a lab test.

Wait… maybe you’re right.

Bike helmets don’t cover your whole head.

True story, somebody close to me got traumatic brain injury even though they were wearing a helmet.

Obvious and elementary conclusion: bike helmets don’t work!

[Chik]

Kids, aren't there a couple of other threads where some of the latest chatter can go?

Isn't this one about vaccines?

[fastupslowdown]

First time in a while I'm proud of NYC. Requiring vaccination before gaining admittance to a gym, restaurant or show is the right way to go. Between this and requiring health care workers and businesses mandating vaccinations we'll put this behind us. About time! -Mike G

[Sino]

Here’s some real-life fluid dynamics for you.

Put on a dust mask (not a respirator that’s been tested for fit, just a humble dust mask) and have at it for 15 minutes with an orbital sander on a piece of wood, painted sheet metal, whatever.

Then blow your nose, note the effluent.

Then have at it again for 15 minutes, blow your nose, report back with the results.

A dust mask is far more hermetic than the average mask people are wearing these days. If you want to do the test with the average mask, worn by the average American, you'll find a healthy amount of sawdust up your nose when you take it off. Plus, when you take it off, guess what? Saw dust on your face now.

If gov wants to provide n95 masks, and people sanitize every single time they touch something, along with 6ft apart, then that would be a different story. But the surgical and fabric masks that the overwhelming majority of people wear, and the manner they are worn, are pretty much worthless- hot spot places that never went unmasked like DC, NYC, and LA all prove it. Might as well mandate magic fairy dust. It's a dumb window dressing that clearly doesn't work.

Again, real world vs. make believe.

[Sino]

You clearly don't like it here. Why stay? Many of us on this forum use it as a virtual outlet to hang out because we don't see each other often enough in real life. Free speech has nothing to do with you being able to state an opinion on a web forum with freedom from an opposing viewpoint. And the reason people dislike cyclists has nothing to do with a web forum debate on masks and vaccination. If you want to become part of the community here, I would recommend you spend a lot more time outside the political threads. But if posts like this continue to be how you spend your time, I really don't know why you bother.

I like all the pretty lugs!

That I don't even remotely agree with most of your opinions is a small issue. You seem to take the internet far more seriously that I do I guess. I find it mildly cathartic to argue different opinions, and also mildly amusing to see how extremely unaccepting and intolerant the modern liberal is of anything "other". Just so much fear of everything.

[beeatnik]

First time in a while I'm proud of NYC. Requiring vaccination before gaining admittance to a gym, restaurant or show is the right way to go. Between this and requiring health care workers and businesses mandating vaccinations we'll put this behind us. About time! -Mike G

And when businesses and workplaces begin to report clusters will you be ok with a mask and testing to gain admission?

[SlowPokePete]

... mildly amusing...

Such an impressive character trait.

SPP

[AngryScientist]

First time in a while I'm proud of NYC. Requiring vaccination before gaining admittance to a gym, restaurant or show is the right way to go. Between this and requiring health care workers and businesses mandating vaccinations we'll put this behind us. About time! -Mike G

I casually heard this on the news this morning and havent looked into it. Does that mean that children (who are not able to be vaxd yet) can not go to a restaurant, or is this rule for adults only?

[beeatnik]

A dust mask is far more hermetic than the average mask people are wearing these days. If you want to do the test with the average mask, worn by the average American, you'll find a healthy amount of sawdust up your nose when you take it off. Plus, when you take it off, guess what? Saw dust on your face now.

If gov wants to provide n95 masks, and people sanitize every single time they touch something, along with 6ft apart, then that would be a different story. But the surgical and fabric masks that the overwhelming majority of people wear, and the manner they are worn, are pretty much worthless- hot spot places that never went unmasked like DC, NYC, and LA all prove it. Might as well mandate magic fairy dust. It's a dumb window dressing that clearly doesn't work.

Again, real world vs. make believe.

The messaging can give you whiplash. From Michael Thomas Osterholm, American epidemiologist, Regents Professor, and Director of the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy at the University of Minnesota who on November 9 was named a member of President-elect Joe Biden's COVID-19 Advisory Board:

oster1.jpg
oster2.jpg

Interestingly, he doesn't address surgical mask efficacy. But this messaging on vaccines is legit:

We have three groups of people today. They are the Vaccine Affirmative. These are the people that drove 120 miles in February snow storms to find vaccine in a clinic in some remote town. They couldn't wait to get it.

Then the Vaccine Hesitant. The group that at this point they have still legitimate concerns. This isn't a licensed vaccine. "I am a pregnant woman." "I am a member of the black community who's been experimented upon by the government." "And this was Operation Warp Speed and it is not a licensed vaccine." All really legitimate questions.


Then there is the third group. The Vaccine Hostile. These are people who under no conditions will be vaccinated in any way against their will. And they are a group that in many cases don't even believe the Pandemic is real, etc. The Vaccine Hostile, we're never going to get.

https://www.pbs.org/wnet/amanpour-an...-think-bglhwy/

[Octave]

I casually heard this on the news this morning and havent looked into it. Does that mean that children (who are not able to be vaxd yet) can not go to a restaurant, or is this rule for adults only?

It appears that until the FDA issues an EUA for one of the vaccines (likely in the next few months) they will not be required to exhibit proof of vaccination, nor will they be barred from entry.

I understand the issues many have with such a mandate, but the message is clear: no one will force you to get vaccinated, but if you wish to participate in activities of society in social or communal settings, you will need to do so. This is no different than public schools requiring vaccinations for children - you can choose to go elsewhere, should you opt out.

[Too Tall]

A dust mask is far more hermetic than the average mask people are wearing these days. If you want to do the test with the average mask, worn by the average American, you'll find a healthy amount of sawdust up your nose when you take it off. Plus, when you take it off, guess what? Saw dust on your face now.

If gov wants to provide n95 masks, and people sanitize every single time they touch something, along with 6ft apart, then that would be a different story. But the surgical and fabric masks that the overwhelming majority of people wear, and the manner they are worn, are pretty much worthless- hot spot places that never went unmasked like DC, NYC, and LA all prove it. Might as well mandate magic fairy dust. It's a dumb window dressing that clearly doesn't work.

Again, real world vs. make believe.

WRT Covid:
Do you wear a mask where requested?

[Sino]

WRT Covid:
Do you wear a mask where requested?

In private locations, of course. Their stores, their rules. If I don't like it, I don't have to go in.