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Thread: 2020 Political Chatter

  1. #1241
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    Default Re: 2020 Political Chatter

    Quote Originally Posted by Saab2000 View Post
    I don’t think Pence would pardon him if he has any hope of a political future of his own. Also, can someone be pardoned without having been charged and/or convicted? In other words, can a pardon be applied to potential future charges?
    That seems like the million dollar question-- will Trump loyalty now be an asset or liability in the future of the repub. party? It seems like a liability to all of us non-delusional people, but...
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  2. #1242
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    Default Re: 2020 Political Chatter

    Probably not in his character, but it would be nice if Pence agreed to pardon trump after he (Trump) resigned, but then, surprise, he didn't pardon him.

    Regardless of pardons, unless highly competent and highly illegal shredding occurs, the evidence will eventually come out exposing all sorts of crap done by this administration.

    The depths of self-serving and profiteering without semblance of public interest is amazing--this administration either attracts or fosters such corrupt types of people. The recent "pardons in exchange for donations" is just the latest to come to light. Maybe much of it will just be deemed highly unseemly and disgusting--like the numerous contacts between Trump-campaign-associated-folks with RUSSIA (our defacto nemesis when I joined the navy, and arguably one of our greatest adversaries as a nation for the last 75 years), but it is abhorrent to me.

    How so many citizens, who likely consider themselves patriotic, are able to tolerate this, let alone rationalize it as ok, is completely beyond me. If I think about it too long, I start wondering why I got up each morning and shaved and put on a uniform for 28 years. I guess it was to help ensure that what occurred this last Nov 3 keeps going--free and fair elections.

    All those years where we'd learn about, and laugh about, ridiculous propaganda used on the citizens of USSR, DPRK, PRC: I'd not have dreamed that in the greedy pursuit of subscribers, viewers, & $$$ that we'd allow the 1st amendment to be misused to brainwash people into believing lies and bullshit even our adversaries would not have dared to hope to realize.
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  3. #1243
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    Default Re: 2020 Political Chatter

    At least three people bearing the "Trump" name and one person bearing the "Kushner" name need to be incarcerated. For the good of the country. (I'm on the fence with Eric. Maybe it's just his SNL character, but he seems like the village idiot for the most part.)
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  4. #1244
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    Default Re: 2020 Political Chatter

    Didn’t the Popes invent the “sale” of indulgences centuries ago?

    https://www.britannica.com/topic/indulgence

    Maybe Barrett is qualified to pass judgement on this one.
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  5. #1245
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    Default Re: 2020 Political Chatter

    Quote Originally Posted by HorsCat View Post
    At least three people bearing the "Trump" name and one person bearing the "Kushner" name need to be incarcerated. For the good of the country. (I'm on the fence with Eric. Maybe it's just his SNL character, but he seems like the village idiot for the most part.)
    Hmmm...but Trump has spent the last four years telling everyone he has done nothing wrong. In those circumstances, why would he, much less his kids and son-in-law, need a pardon for...???
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  6. #1246
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    Default Re: 2020 Political Chatter

    Quote Originally Posted by BBB View Post
    Hmmm...but Trump has spent the last four years telling everyone he has done nothing wrong. In those circumstances, why would he, much less his kids and son-in-law, need a pardon for...???
    He has also used the term "witch hunt" a time or two over these last few years.
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  7. #1247
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    Default Re: 2020 Political Chatter

    I was being sarcastic! I'd be wanting a pardon if I was in Trump's shoes too!

    Witch hunt was used closely in connection with his pleas of innocence.
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  8. #1248
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    Default Re: 2020 Political Chatter

    Quote Originally Posted by BBB View Post
    Hmmm...but Trump has spent the last four years telling everyone he has done nothing wrong. In those circumstances, why would he, much less his kids and son-in-law, need a pardon for...???
    There's a nuance you're missing here. The pardon is to prevent a liberal conspiracy from trapping him with fake news. He's done nothing wrong. /s
    Dan in Oregon

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    The wheel is round. The hill lasts as long as it lasts. That's a fact. Everything else is pure theory.
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  9. #1249
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    Default Re: 2020 Political Chatter

    Nuance and Trump are two words not normally associated with one another!
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    Default Re: 2020 Political Chatter

    Quote Originally Posted by Clean39T View Post
    There's a nuance you're missing here. The pardon is to prevent a liberal conspiracy from trapping him with fake news. He's done nothing wrong. /s
    the only nuance is him discussing family pardoning is proof he knows he lost
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  11. #1251
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    Default Re: 2020 Political Chatter

    Quote Originally Posted by johnmdesigner View Post
    Didn’t the Popes invent the “sale” of indulgences centuries ago?

    https://www.britannica.com/topic/indulgence

    Maybe Barrett is qualified to pass judgement on this one.
    Which was a direct line to Luther and the reformation with civil war the result.
    I can imagine a second civil war in the US.

    I am sure if we put our mind to it, we can come up with 95 Theses on alt-right corruption.
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  12. #1252
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    Default Re: 2020 Political Chatter

    Quote Originally Posted by jimcav View Post
    All those years where we'd learn about, and laugh about, ridiculous propaganda used on the citizens of USSR, DPRK, PRC: I'd not have dreamed that in the greedy pursuit of subscribers, viewers, & $$$ that we'd allow the 1st amendment to be misused to brainwash people into believing lies and bullshit even our adversaries would not have dared to hope to realize.
    I too am saddened by the brainwashing of the American people, though I'm not surprised. But the thought of using the 1st Amendment to restrict that propaganda is even more abhorrent to me. Unfortunately much of it seems to come from the Govt itself.

    And 'lies and bullshit' in the news is nothing new in this country. In 1807 Thomas Jefferson wrote:
    To your request of my opinion of the manner in which a newspaper should be conducted, so as to be most useful, I should answer, “by restraining it to true facts & sound principles only.” Yet I fear such a paper would find few subscribers. It is a melancholy truth, that a suppression of the press could not more compleatly deprive the nation of it's benefits, than is done by it's abandoned prostitution to falsehood. Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle.
    Quote Originally Posted by jimcav View Post
    How so many citizens, who likely consider themselves patriotic, are able to tolerate this, let alone rationalize it as ok, is completely beyond me. If I think about it too long, I start wondering why I got up each morning and shaved and put on a uniform for 28 years. I guess it was to help ensure that what occurred this last Nov 3 keeps going--free and fair elections.
    I often wonder why I got up all of those mornings as well, though I only wore a uniform for 6 years. But my reasons for contemplation are nowhere near the same as yours. Perhaps those 8 months that I spent in the USSR gave me a different outlook on things. Or maybe those KGB officers that I walked by daily (dressed as policemen) somehow brainwashed me.

    I am on MGySgt Carlisle's immediate right. The civilian is Ambassador Jack Matlock.

    Eat one live toad first thing in the morning and nothing worse will happen to you all day.
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  13. #1253
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    Default Re: 2020 Political Chatter

    I guess I should have been more clear about mis-use of the 1st amendment. I am all for individual freedom of speech, and a free press; and I understand the proclivity to consume rumors and scandalous news. However, news should be able to be defined in a certain way that is has some level of evidence, sources, and accountability; yet the modern era of social media is giving a platform and legitimacy to that which is not news. The immediacy, reach, and lack of accountability and/or editorial review, which at least had some level of presence in news of by gone eras (including the founders' time) is creating areas where the "news" reaching large segments of the population is as true as the "facts" the dear leader allows the masses to learn in DPRK
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  14. #1254
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    Default Re: 2020 Political Chatter

    I agree that social media is a problem. That does seem to the way that many people get their news......but that is their own fault. Maybe they don't care, maybe they don't have the attention span or maybe they just want their bias confirmed. Welcome to America.

    In the past there probably was better accountability regarding the truth, though bias in reporting certainly existed. I can remember my Dad saying that a certain paper was Republican and another Democrat.

    I imagine that the lies and bullshit always existed in the news but we weren't as aware of them. Since we are now bombarded with news from every direction their presence is easier to see.
    Eat one live toad first thing in the morning and nothing worse will happen to you all day.
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  15. #1255
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    Default Re: 2020 Political Chatter

    Quote Originally Posted by choke View Post
    I agree that social media is a problem. That does seem to the way that many people get their news......but that is their own fault. Maybe they don't care, maybe they don't have the attention span or maybe they just want their bias confirmed. Welcome to America.

    In the past there probably was better accountability regarding the truth, though bias in reporting certainly existed. I can remember my Dad saying that a certain paper was Republican and another Democrat.

    I imagine that the lies and bullshit always existed in the news but we weren't as aware of them. Since we are now bombarded with news from every direction their presence is easier to see.
    My grandfather was a national politician at the turn of the 20th century. He didn’t hold any offices but he did make sure that ‘his’ people occupied them. He founded the Lincoln (Nebraska) Star newspaper to forward his views, agendas, etc. He was rewarded with Ministerships and Ambassadorships for his efforts.

    I think all newspapers have had biases towards one way or the other since the beginning but I also think the advent of national news reporting and the prominence of a few key people during the ‘golden age’ of news reporting (think Cronkite, Sevareid, etc.) and their organizations gave people confidence that what was said was factual. That no longer holds true because anyone can now gain an audience by saying what people want to hear and/orwhat reinforces their beliefs. I feel that we collectively have become intellectually lazy.
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  16. #1256
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    Default Re: 2020 Political Chatter

    https://www.netflix.com/title/81254224

    Seems relevant to the information/news age discussion. We watched it last weekend with our 12 and 16 y.o. Our 12 y.o. doesn't have a phone or social media. Our 16 yo deleted TikTok, SnapChat, etc.
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  17. #1257
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    Default Re: 2020 Political Chatter

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Thompson View Post
    I feel that we collectively have become intellectually lazy.
    Yes. It also feels like we're at a low ebb for standards in many respects. For instance, when I was learning journalism, the FCC was a real entity that reinforced the attention I paid to media law and ethics. This continued when I was in a functioning newsroom, with career professionals walking the talk about the responsibilities of broadcasters. I know influence and agendas were always present, but I find it a real shame that visible enforcement of standards doesn't seem to exist now--just a transparent apparatchik sipping from an M&Ms mug while pursuing his handlers' agenda.
    Dan Fuller, local bicycle enthusiast
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  18. #1258
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    Default Re: 2020 Political Chatter

    Quote Originally Posted by choke View Post
    I can remember my Dad saying that a certain paper was Republican and another Democrat.
    Indeed, when I was at Annapolis as plebes we HAD to get a newspaper. Nearly everyone in my company got the Washington Times, so I got the Post. I had no idea at the time (never visited before going) that the Washington Times was heavily conservative and the Post had a liberal bent. I just didn't want to compete with all the same articles (or on the rare occasion where I might be lazy, have another classmate present a different/better version of the same article). What I saw then was that the papers had the same underlying FACTS, although they obviously chose WHICH facts to focus on and which to omit. A good example was differing coverage of Camden Yards replacing Memorial Park. One paper would focus on future prosperity impacts, crime rates, etc, the other would look at poverty and displacement. But neither just completely made shit up.
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  19. #1259
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    Default Re: 2020 Political Chatter

    Quote Originally Posted by jimcav View Post
    What I saw then was that the papers had the same underlying FACTS, although they obviously chose WHICH facts to focus on and which to omit.
    I liked this when I moved into producing radio talk shows. Early (really early) every day I'd start reviewing a spectrum of sources from left to right. It gave me a lot of opportunities to confirm facts and assemble a more complete picture of an issue.
    Dan Fuller, local bicycle enthusiast
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  20. #1260
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    Default Re: 2020 Political Chatter

    Before www, it took a boatload of money to get a message out with a printing press--radio station--TV. Folks with that kind of money had many interests in common and their broadcast "facts" were not effectively disputed by some dude on a soap box. I'm fairly certain stability will be restored to the narrative but it will be rather ugly on the way there.
    Jeff Hazeltine
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