2020 Political Chatter

[j44ke]

I wouldn't ask my black friends because it would be disingenuous. Just saying that for a certain type of white person, other than a Third Reich takeover, nothing coming out of Washington\ has real impact on their day to day existence. This is an optimistic view. The whole arc of the moral universe bending to justice.

Now for poor people, most people of color, LGBQT persons, there's a difference calculus.

My feeling is that if anyone is suffering or being treated unfairly or oppressed due to ethnicity economic class gender identity, then I am negatively affected.

Thurgood Marshall was asked at the end of his career on the Supreme Court whether black people were better off now than when he started as a lawyer. He said (my memory not his exact words) The question is moot. People are better off now than they were when I started as a lawyer. Quality of life is not elevated for one person by the oppression of another person. We are all diminished by oppression and inequity.

But I might not be understanding what you are talking about.

[beeatnik]

My feeling is that if anyone is suffering or being treated unfairly or oppressed due to ethnicity economic class gender identity, then I am negatively affected.

Thurgood Marshall was asked at the end of his career on the Supreme Court whether black people were better off now than when he started as a lawyer. He said (my memory not his exact words) The question is moot. People are better off now than they were when I started as a lawyer. Quality of life is not elevated for one person by the oppression of another person. We are all diminished by oppression and inequity.

But I might not be understanding what you are talking about.

That's a humanistic view that is not compatible with the Nice Trump Voter's (NTV) protestant ethic and spirit of capitalism (fairness). And that's the reason we need people in the streets, right?

[j44ke]

That's a humanistic view that is not compatible with the Nice Trump Voter's (NTV) protestant ethic and spirit of capitalism (fairness). And that's the reason we need people in the streets, right?

I see. I understand now.

Yes. But people in the streets are also not compatible with NTV and SoC(f).

[beeatnik]

I see. I understand now.

Yes. But people in the streets are also not compatible with NTV and SoC(f).

It's a tough equation! Pollsters can't figure it out.

[vertical_doug]

I wouldn't ask my black friends because it would be disingenuous. Just saying that for a certain type of white person, other than a Third Reich takeover, nothing coming out of Washington (two parties, three branches) has real impact on their day to day existence. This is an optimistic view. The whole arc of the moral universe bending to justice.

Now for poor people, most people of color, LGBQT persons, there's a different calculus.

edit: misread your first question.

I think for many people lack of quality education is what holds them back. The best way to improve a child's education outcome if to put them in a better setting. If nice white people, or nice politicians for votes, do not want to integrate schools, or even allow some integration, I'd say it has a serious affect on a child's outcome....

A good example of this is the fight against affordable housing in Westchester County NY.


or am I off the mark here?

Although small, cutting SNAP payments may be another.

[thollandpe]

Friends who are gender non-binary have certainly had a rough few years.

[beeatnik]

I think for many people lack of quality education is what holds them back. The best way to improve a child's education outcome if to put them in a better setting. If nice white people, or nice politicians for votes, do not want to integrate schools, or even allow some integration, I'd say it has a serious affect on a child's outcome....

A good example of this is the fight against affordable housing in Westchester County NY.


or am I off the mark here?

Although small, cutting SNAP payments may be another.

We think the answer is policy; they think the answer is outcome. Macro vs Micro. The only person I know who voted for Trump describes himself as "the best goddamn contractor around." He graduated from an underperforming high school, spent 3 aimless years in community college and eventually found a trade. He believes that his income affords him the same status as a professional with a post-grad education. He believes that personal accountability is more important than equity. It's the idea that no one will trip you on your way home, whether you start at home plate or 3rd base.

[echappist]

The game is pretty clear at this point, and it's looney tunes. Gum up the works long enough that states cannot certify the results, throwing it to GOP legislatures that they hope will send friendly electors to the electoral college, overriding the clear results of the election.

It's going to be interesting to see in Georgia how GOP turnout looks without Trump on the ballot.

Spurred on by none other than Sen. Graham of South Carolina. If Sen. McConnell is the most odious of all GOP senators, then Sen. Graham runs a close second (followed by Cruz).

Sen. Graham's direct quote on this matter:

If Republicans don’t challenge and change the U.S. election system, there will never be another Republican president elected again

https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...ction-results/

[vertical_doug]

Spurred on by none other than Sen. Graham of South Carolina. If Sen. McConnell is the most odious of all GOP senators, then Sen. Graham runs a close second (followed by Cruz).

You should listen to Rush Limbaugh today. We need to cast out the rinos before the moderate republicans can take back control of the party of trump.. Because what separates us from the animals, is you don't desert your friends... ( I am not making this up... this is Rush on the radio today)

[theflashunc]

As a non-African-American person of color, this is the question I asked my affluent white friends: how did Trump's presidency impact you on a practical day to day basis. Most of my acquaintances are over 35 and use birth control or are childless. None were worse off in any measurable way in pre-pandemic 2020 than they were in 2016. It's nice to have principles.

All of my Latinx and Chicano friends are products of California state colleges (not the competitive ones) and they all have very high standards of living. They don't face any structural barriers in actualizing their potential, let alone threats to their physical well being. Most were in college when Pete Wilson was the original Trump in CA. They all voted for Biden.

America is so weird

I live in California.

If you want to wipe away everything else that's happened the last four years like it also didn't affect white people, then the SALT deduction change alone should have white people in places like California, New York, etc up in arms. Which they were, about 3 billion administration crises ago. And having your tax bill directly affected simply for own property in an expensive place is a pretty measurable impact.

[beeatnik]

The cisgender, affluent white people I asked (small sample, obv) did not mention taxes because in their minds their gains in the market and their property values increasing 3 fold offset SALT, etc. They essentially admitted that they were not in a position to lose rights and entitlements.

[zachateseverything]

The cisgender, affluent white people I asked (small sample, obv) did not mention taxes because in their minds their gains in the market and their property values increasing 3 fold offset SALT, etc. They essentially admitted that they were not in a position to lose rights and entitlements.

Upper middle class heterosexual cis-white male here. I'm obviously spared from a lot of the most horrible Trump/GOP policy decisions. My taxes and healthcare costs both went up. My investment returns pre-pandemic weren't much different from what was achieved in the second half of the Obama administration.

[Too Tall]

I think Trump is waiting for a buy out offer. He wants something to leave. Probably US gov. applied pressure on Deutsche Bank to forget his debt but would settle for a blanket pardon.

you are circling the answer but yeah something like that. Maybe all this bluster is nothing more drumming up $$$ in a foreseeable future....provided he does not decamp for a country with no extradition.

[Too Tall]

You should listen to Rush Limbaugh today. We need to cast out the rinos before the moderate republicans can take back control of the party of trump.. Because what separates us from the animals, is you don't desert your friends... ( I am not making this up... this is Rush on the radio today)

Gosh, that old saw? Man, he really needs a good old fashioned partial blockage of a coronary artery. Just sayin'

[zachateseverything]

Gosh, that old saw? Man, he really needs a good old fashioned partial blockage of a coronary artery. Just sayin'

he already has terminal lung cancer and loss of hearing brought on by years of opiate abuse. it's only a matter of time...

[72gmc]

you are circling the answer but yeah something like that. Maybe all this bluster is nothing more drumming up $$$ in a foreseeable future....provided he does not decamp for a country with no extradition.

He'll take the change from beneath his believers' couch cushions.

[j44ke]

you are circling the answer but yeah something like that. Maybe all this bluster is nothing more drumming up $$$ in a foreseeable future....provided he does not decamp for a country with no extradition.

Mike Esper seems to be hinting that he got fired because he said no to Trump.

Esper was the official who said no US military deployed to cities where protests were underway.

I guess Trump is looking for someone to say yes to US military deployment?

[Too Tall]

Mike Esper seems to be hinting that he got fired because he said no to Trump.

Esper was the official who said no US military deployed to cities where protests were underway.

I guess Trump is looking for someone to say yes to US military deployment?

For what? When he declares Biden a invalid Presidential elect? Not buying it. 'Merica might be eff'd up yet we are smart enough not to start a civil war (he said).

[guido]

The Nightmare Is Finally Over, and We Can Say with Absolute Certainty That There Will Never Be Another Death Star Ever Again | McSweeneys

"
by Madeleine Trebenski

People of the Republic!

Rebel fighters have at last dealt the Empire a fatal blow. With a blast heard around the galaxy, our forces have destroyed the Death Star and with it the Emperor’s reign of terror. This blow has turned the tide of galactic oppression and righted the ship of justice. Now is the time to set off your fireworks, celebrate in the streets, and hold an Ewok close. The nightmare is over, the Emperor has fled, and we can say with absolute certainty that there will never be another Death Star ever again.

Our reports state that, at the time of the attack, the Emperor was playing golf at his resort in Canto Bight, but has since retreated to the farthest reaches of the Outer Rim. He continues to send out communications claiming that he won The Battle of the Death Star, even though flaming chunks of debris from the former moon-sized battle station are currently raining down on nearby planets. Try not to take his refusal to acknowledge defeat and his vow to never relinquish supreme power too seriously. In the wake of our victory, his regime and all of the anti-republic support he has stirred up over the last few years will surely fade back into the dark corners of space from whence they came. There’s no reason to believe that his followers will quietly nurse their hatred in the shadows and commence rebuilding a second Death Star the minute we become complacent and return to the status quo. But, if they did, we would absolutely notice before it was almost fully operational and poised to once again destroy the galaxy (how dumb would we have to be to let that happen a second time?).

Thanks to a poorly placed exhaust port and a brave contingent of fighters, the Rebel Alliance has reclaimed at least partial control over the fate of the galaxy. The fact that we just barely managed to secure this victory by very thin margins doesn’t mean anything at all. A win is a win, even if 55% of white women and 99% of Hutts still support the Empire. And there’s definitely no reason to be concerned that 47.7% of the galaxy’s population still rallied around the Emperor despite the fact that he blew up Alderaan, called fallen stormtroopers losers, killed over 200,000 people by failing to respond to an intergalactic pandemic, and is obviously a hideously malformed, agent of the evil Sith Order. Now that we’ve won this one battle, those are just details!

It also seems totally fair to say that “dismantling the Death Star with a well-placed laser blast” and “dismantling the systemic oppression and empire supremacy that led to the rise of the Sith to begin with” are basically the same thing. All that remains for us to do now is clean up the remaining star destroyers, ignore the Emperor’s calls for vengeance, and pat ourselves on the back for something that was largely achieved by a small and extremely marginalized subset of our organization. Once that’s complete, everything can return to normal. Which is something we all long for because, as it turns out, launching and sustaining a rebellion to restore balance to the Force takes up quite a bit of time and emotional energy — energy we’d much rather dedicate to sailing the sand dunes on our pleasure barges and posting selfies on The Holonet.

Fortunately, now that we’ve achieved victory in this single battle, it seems perfectly safe to return to the idle apathy that allowed an evil Sith lord to take over the galaxy in the first place. After all, the Emperor doesn’t have his Death Star anymore and he never will again. What can he do to us without it? Sure, he does have those scary lightning hands and that super evil apprentice and all those henchmen who still believe in his ideology, but they’ll probably just give up and go into hiding now that they’ve developed a taste for power. That’s clearly something a group of angry, hate-filled, empire supremacists would do in the face of defeat…"

[j44ke]

For what? When he declares Biden a invalid Presidential elect? Not buying it. 'Merica might be eff'd up yet we are smart enough not to start a civil war (he said).

I could see a Federal seizure of ballots happening. That’s effectively what is being requested in suits brought forth in Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania where the campaign is demanding “meaningful access” as in hands-on scrutiny of ballots.

There is no separation at this point between Trump’s re-election campaign and the Federal
Gov. They are the same.

It may seem like a stretch, but I don’t think Esper is getting fired for saying no to a request a couple months ago. I think it is more immediate - as in the last day or so.