Minneapolis Social Injustice and Related

[caleb]

It's all fine, as long as it's just the white folks doing it.

It’s me. It’s my mostly white neighbors willing and ready to kill to defend their families.

It is most definitely not fine.

16 people have been shot in the last week.

[Mabouya]

It’s me. It’s my mostly white neighbors willing and ready to kill to defend their families.

Well, if they think that sitting on their porches with their AR-15's is the best long-term solution, I think they'll be disappointed.

[COVRTDESIGN]

As a 7 times deployed veteran and a disabled veteran, I will happily take up my second amendment rights against this dictatorial president and administration. This POS president is using hateful and divisive language to deal with this situation as well as violence and increased aggression; instead of uniting our people as one and, for once, having a compassionate voice.
I call on every fellow national guardsman and women, every active duty airman, marine, seaman, army, and coast guard to defy the “orders” given by this “president” and stand with your fellow man/woman/ pronoun.

I have kept quiet for too long, and want to use my voice to let this government, these hateful people, these racists, know that all of us veterans are not with you, we are against you, we will make this country great again with equal rights to all "colors" and religions, LGBTQ, all men/women that are created equally as per our constitution that I fought for! We are better than this. We are supposedly the “best” country in the world and yet we cannot give our citizens free health care like the rest of the world can, we can’t give equal rights like the rest of the world can, we can’t give basic income to not live on an old, greasy piece of cardboard out of a dumpster, regardless of what their life struggles may be. Why do we, white people, think that being white is better than any other human being, why do we use it as a status and reason to demean others, why do we put down others that don’t have what we have in this point in time???
Yes, we are only 240 years old as a country, but why do we constantly disregard history and other nations, global powerhouses, etc and keep making the same mistakes that humanity has made since they first walked on two feet on this beautiful earth??
Elon Musk just took us to the next step in human space travel, yet we are going to unfortunately use it to disenfranchise the many to carry on for the elite few.
What is it about people that don’t look like you, don’t act like you, don’t think like you, don’t feel like you, that is so hard to understand and bear? What makes that, in your day to day life, make it so hard to deal with said day to day life?? Why does it hurt you to the core to let others experience the same privileges that you have, even for a fucking second? I truly do not understand.
WE the people will overcome and take out tyranny, oppression, racism, hatred, inclusion, sexism, etc and we will prevail. This country will not fall to the few!
Many that know me personally know that I constantly say that I hate humanity. I love certain humans, but humanity has become a disease on this earth. Until we can do what the great Martin Luther King said and just get along, this beautiful blue marble will be incredibly fortunate to not have this disease on its earth anymore.
Let’s prove me wrong!

[ZenNMotion]

The odds are 0.00 that he has any history whatsoever in the Civil Rights movement, and I'd bet that in his case it's the exact opposite.

Here in East Bay/San Leandro and Oakland areas there are neighborhood reports of pallets of bricks that have mysteriously appeared near shopping centers nowhere near any construction sites. Local youtube vids show young white dudes with gear and walkie talkies front and center in front of the crowds "protesting" BLM while they throw bricks at Walmart windows. Facebook "announcements" with "invitations" to gather and loot have appeared for several locations in different cities with the exact same text, font etc- just a different photo of the targeted shopping area. The lines aren't simple and the agendas are many, this isn't just protest, it's not just opportunistic thievery, it's not just political maneuvering, and it's not just toxic young male thuggery, it's all that and more. Last night we had 3 shopping centers looted and burned within a couple miles of my home including one just a few blocks away. Multiple helicopters were hovering, there were frequent gun shots and explosions, and the main streets became race tracks- the car was packed and ready to go at around midnight but I didn't want to take my chances on the roads out of town. I've spent some time in Beirut when tensions with Israel were high and it didn't feel dissimilar. We're currently under a 6pm curfew for the next few days, hopefully things will calm down. No effing way I'm riding my bike on the road in the Bay area for a while, early morning trail runs before people are out (still high Covid alert with nearly 3500 cases reported in the county so far) are keeping me sane.

[caleb]

Well, if they think that sitting on their porches with their AR-15's is the best long-term solution, I think they'll be disappointed.

It's obviously not a long term solution - that's why we created states - but it's the only short term solution.

We are living in a failed state, the reality just hasn't made it to the most privileged areas yet.

[beeatnik]

https://spreadsheets.latimes.com/la-riots-deaths/

Of the 63 people killed during '''92 riots, 23 deaths remain unsolved — artist Jeff Beall is mapping where they fell - Los Angeles Times

[Mabouya]

Here in East Bay/San Leandro and Oakland areas there are neighborhood reports of pallets of bricks that have mysteriously appeared near shopping centers nowhere near any construction sites. Local youtube vids show young white dudes with gear and walkie talkies front and center in front of the crowds "protesting" BLM while they throw bricks at Walmart windows. Facebook "announcements" with "invitations" to gather and loot have appeared for several locations in different cities with the exact same text, font etc- just a different photo of the targeted shopping area.

Well, based on what we've seen thus far from William Barr, I very much doubt that the FBI will be investigating any of this, whether it's real or not.

[beeatnik]

Well, based on what we've seen thus far from William Barr, I very much doubt that the FBI will be investigating any of this, whether it's real or not.

One side must think it's pretty clever.

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[ides1056]

It's obviously not a long term solution - that's why we created states - but it's the only short term solution.

We are living in a failed state, the reality just hasn't made it to the most privileged areas yet.

We do not live in a failed state.

Not by a long shot.

Lose the zoom lens and see the blue dot we live on from aloft.

This is not collapse. This is upheaval.

As in you ate something that disagrees with you and you spit it up.

[COVRTDESIGN]

D.C. Church '''Outraged''' That Trump Used It As Photo-Op

Photo ops, fucking photo ops where you had police forcefully remove random people and some protestors so that you could hold up a book that you have never seen, and use it as a fucking prop that make NO sense to what is going on in this country right now???

He literally looked at it to see what it was he was holding before saying, "it's "A" bible" Fuck everything about this guy. You could have literally stood on a corner and taken a knee and it would have given you points.

[caleb]

We do not live in a failed state.

Not by a long shot.

Lose the zoom lens and see the blue dot we live on from aloft.

This is not collapse. This is upheaval.

As in you ate something that disagrees with you and you spit it up.

Nah, when the state does not provide effective guarantees to people's lives, it has failed. The guarantee to bodily safety is the basis of the bargain we make with the modern state.

The state may be able to be revived. That is a separate question.

[BBB]

This is a sad and very sorry situation.

A global pandemic and a botched response. 106,000 dead. Economic chaos. An election year. White people "protesting" with assault rifles about freedoms.

Into this mix you throw the white policeman killing a black man match and the place explodes.

The 106,000 dead are forgotten (good for Trump) and the underlying racial issue is forgotten as "protests" become a free for all (again, good for Trump).

What a sorry mess.

Where is decent leadership when you need it? In New Zealand it would seem. Certainly not in Washington.

[rwsaunders]

Just to go back to earlier in the thread where someone was condemning the looting of Target which is a local company....this from Adweek (you don’t need the whole article as this is enough in general)...


« Why Demonstrators Protesting the Death of George Floyd in Minneapolis Keyed In on Target


As protests unfolded across the United States last week and escalated through the weekend, hundreds of businesses across the country were damaged. Many of those businesses weren't targeted for specific reasons, but some were—most notably a Target on Lake Street in Minneapolis, which was near the epicenter of the initial George Floyd protests.

Target has a history of donating to local police organizations and in 2015 settled a hiring discrimination complaint for $2.8 million. Locals also claimed that this particular Target location was allegedly refusing to sell to demonstrators the supplies needed to neutralize the chemical irritants used by police to control crowds.

Our story from Minneapolis-based reporter Mónica Marie Zorrilla goes into great detail the relationship Target has with the local community and how its past actions led demonstrators to take action against the brand »

And, I trust some here have read, in addition to the my post before about the restaurant that was burned in Minneapolis saying they totally understood as justice was more important, the Washington Post article today with several other restaurants that were destroyed/ damaged in Washington DC and the owners saying it was more important that justice for all people be realized.

Jon...Target’s 2019 Corporate Responsibility Report is a good read if you want more current information about where Target donated $200M last year and their positions pertaining to DEI, sustainability, volunteerism and other categories of interest. I’m a bit jaded as two of my kids have worked for Target and they are better for the experience.


https://corporate.target.com/_media/...rt.pdf#page=47

[ZenNMotion]

Nah, when the state does not provide effective guarantees to people's lives, it has failed. The guarantee to bodily safety is the basis of the bargain we make with the modern state.

The state may be able to be revived. That is a separate question.

Respectfully, the state (here in the US) has never provided effective guarantees to ALL people's lives, and I don't think it's necessary to cite the many historical instances to prove that point. Maybe we're debating the same point, I don't know. But the term "failed state" is just a little hyperbolic in this case, don't you think? You can parse a definition using words (that's what we do with our limited direct exposure to violence), but I think if you read news or other descriptions of life in real failed states the distinction becomes pretty stark. As far as hunkering down with high powered weapons to defend families, I think it's important to note that mobs aren't targeting people, they're targeting property. Destroying and stealing property <<< taking lives. There's always a better solution, talk of brandishing AR-whatevers is just bluster to cope with expressing fear, but it's irrational and emotional lazy thinking, too easy.

[caleb]

Respectfully, the state (here in the US) has never provided effective guarantees to ALL people's lives, and I don't think it's necessary to cite the many historical instances to prove that point. Maybe we're debating the same point, I don't know. But the term "failed state" is just a little hyperbolic in this case, don't you think? You can parse a definition using words (that's what we do with our limited direct exposure to violence), but I think if you read news or other descriptions of life in real failed states the distinction becomes pretty stark. As far as hunkering down with high powered weapons to defend families, I think it's important to note that mobs aren't targeting people, they're targeting property. Destroying and stealing property <<< taking lives. There's always a better solution, talk of brandishing AR-whatevers is just bluster to cope with expressing fear, but it's irrational and emotional lazy thinking, too easy.

The idea of a failed state can be variously defined. If it's dichotomous (either you're Somalia or South Sudan or you're not), then the US isn't a failed state because it still issues passports that other countries honor (the rule of recognition). But if the basis of a state is that we exchange liberty for bodily security (see Hobbes) then the US has been failing for quite some time, perhaps it has even always been failing to a significant degree. At this moment, it is certainly failing more than usual.

And as for bluster, see above. The body count is already 16 in the city this week. It is most definitely real and immediate. There are people with guns on the street at this moment. I understand that most cannot wrap their heads around what is happening.

[beeatnik]

This is LA.

Twitter
This is one of the most absolutely insane moments I've ever seen on live television.


Twitter
CORNY ASS BITCH

[Mabouya]

This is LA.

Twitter
This is one of the most absolutely insane moments I've ever seen on live television.

Nothing will EVER top the OJ & Al Cowlings white Bronco "chase."

[ZenNMotion]

The idea of a failed state can be variously defined. If it's dichotomous (either you're Somalia or South Sudan or you're not), then the US isn't a failed state because it still issues passports that other countries honor (the rule of recognition). But if the basis of a state is that we exchange liberty for bodily security (see Hobbes) then the US has been failing for quite some time, perhaps it has even always been failing to a significant degree. At this moment, it is certainly failing more than usual.

And as for bluster, see above. The body count is already 16 in the city this week. It is most definitely real and immediate. There are people with guns on the street at this moment. I understand that most cannot wrap their heads around what is happening.

I have lost patience with my many close friends and colleagues who, from our shared position of relative privilege (putting myself fully in that category) love the didactic discussions and the words. That the US (who is that exactly, and why aren't we sharing individual responsibility for that?) has failed it's citizens and residents in many ways is a true cliche. Failed state or not, whatever, it's just words. I can wrap my head around what's happening- I'm not in MNPLS (been there a couple of times, nice town, sad to see it in such chaos and fear) but I have present and past experience to work from that I think I "feel you". Those dudes with guns have a mix of complex motivations for being armed, in the street. However, I would argue that you have little to fear from them unless you're mixing in the same chaotic emotional stew, you can stay home. At an extreme, they're not targeting you, just your stuff and maybe your privilege (looting isn't just about the free teevee). Insert your own gun and violent fantasy into the mix (where you most likely had a number of better and different options that would become apparent if you reversed the movie a bit) and then they now have real fear and reason to act on it (see Hobbes). Property<<<Lives (even bad guys)

[caleb]

Those dudes with guns have a mix of complex motivations for being armed, in the street.

You're not understanding. All sorts of people are armed. It's not the alt-righters. It's the homeowners sitting in their lawnchairs in their front yards. It's not some sick cosplay. There is no effective police presence.

[sk_tle]

The problem is multiple centuries old. You have to realize that most of you are living as "criminal immigrants" as Trump would say it who built illegal colonies in this territory (I am not pointing the finger at anyone, as an european, my ancestors are as guilty as yours). Thus came that silly habit of protecting your properties and belongings with guns.

This is so wrong on so many levels.

There is no good reason to use gun against non armed people. Things are just things, they can be replaced or rebuild. Not lives. A lot of people in this country need a serious reminder of that from a real leader.