Minneapolis Social Injustice and Related

[sine]

I’ll bet he has the tops laced because he has a wide midfoot. The other guy has a bullet in the chamber and a clip ready to load in under 10 seconds. To laugh at him or to try to find humor in the militarization of our streets is dangerous.

Hate to see it (wish the peaceful protests could have remained peaceful)....the heavily armed police and national guard but.....

....they should have been called out to actively prevent thugs from looting right from the start.

Feckless local leadership results in affected communities struggling in the aftermath.

[mjbabcock]

Hate to see it (wish the peaceful protests could have remained peaceful)....the heavily armed police and national guard but.....

....they should have been called out to actively prevent thugs from looting right from the start.

Feckless local leadership results in affected communities struggling in the aftermath.

Can someone repost the Black woman pointing out that the Black community doesn’t own anything, that they want justice and not revenge, and she doesn’t care if they burn it all down. “Feckless local leadership” is a trope to get folks to ignore structural inequality that leads to protest.

The crazy white folk get all excited when a guy bulldozes some buildings...using it as a calling card...if I were young and Black I’d be torching banks, corporate headquarters, and stock exchanges. Song for Solomon would have nothing on me.

[theflashunc]

Hate to see it (wish the peaceful protests could have remained peaceful)....the heavily armed police and national guard but.....

....they should have been called out to actively prevent thugs from looting right from the start.

Feckless local leadership results in affected communities struggling in the aftermath.

The concerns are backwards and to my mind morally indefensible if people care more about a burned out Target and Wendy's than the murderers parading around as enforcers of the peace. We should not be more concerned about the spasmodic and regrettable acts of violence in an otherwise overwhelmingly peaceful show of public outrage than the systemic use of violence and terror by our society's law enforcement against the Black community.

Look at how those guys are dressed. Where are they going? Who are they trying to defend themselves against? When did the citizenry become another enemy combatant to fight? Why do they not want to be identified by badge and name when they ultimately are in public service?

[sine]

Can someone repost the Black woman pointing out that the Black community doesn’t own anything, that they want justice and not revenge, and she doesn’t care if they burn it all down. “Feckless local leadership” is a trope to get folks to ignore structural inequality that leads to protest.

The crazy white folk get all excited when a guy bulldozes some buildings...using it as a calling card...if I were young and Black I’d be torching banks, corporate headquarters, and stock exchanges. Song for Solomon would have nothing on me.

Wow.

Black, Latino business owners face destruction in Minneapolis - Los Angeles Times

[theflashunc]

Wow.

Black, Latino business owners face destruction in Minneapolis - Los Angeles Times

Pay to rebuild 'em out of police budgets.

[mjbabcock]

Wow.

Black, Latino business owners face destruction in Minneapolis - Los Angeles Times

Step back and take a look at the whole forest. Look at the rates POC own businesses as opposed to white folk. Look at healthcare outcomes (including covid), look at life expectancy, education rates, family wealth, unemployment rates...zoom out.

There is a noticeable attempt to reframe this unrest as simply harming those already at the margins instead of looking at state violence against Black people and their communities. Reframing this unrest lets people (you included) disregard how we (you included) perpetuate racist systems and racialized outcomes.

“Beep beep, Richie, this is New York City
The X on the map where the pain keep hitting
Just us ducks here sitting
Where murderous chokehold cops still earnin’ a livin’
Funny how some say money don’t matter
That’s rich now, isn’t it, get it? Comedy
Try to sell a pack a smokes to get food
Get killed and it’s not an anamoly
But hey, it’s just money”

[thollandpe]

There have been an alarming number of disturbing incidents where people have purposely mowed down protesters with cars. Using cars to maim and kill people because they're pissing them off. That's straight-up domestic terrorism.

This article isn't as old as the May 29 article from the LA Times about looting linked above. But as of June 15 there were at east 19 cases of people driving cars into protesters according to this:

Amid massive demonstrations, vehicles striking protesters raise disturbing echoes of 2017 Charlottesville attack - Washington Post

Just this last week two were hit in Seattle with one killed, and two in Bloomington. This article, written yesterday, says there have been 66 such attacks since George Floyd was murdered on May 25. Wow.

Drivers Are Hitting Protesters as Memes of Car Attacks Spread - The New York Times



Cars don't hit people, drivers do.

[sine]

edit

Step back and take a look at the whole forest. Look at the rates POC own businesses as opposed to white folk. Look at healthcare outcomes (including covid), look at life expectancy, education rates, family wealth, unemployment rates...zoom out.

Anyone who pays even a little bit of attention to whats going on in the USA is aware of all this.

Listen, a small business owner puts in more than just money into the business. There is a ton of sweat equity as well. Some business owners are more forgiving, many more are hurt and will find it tough to come back after Covid19 shutdowns and the riots. Residents in affected area's now have to travel further to do their shopping. At least one person died protecting a business from rioters. If you think this is ok, shame on you.

[mjbabcock]

If you think this is ok, shame on you.

No one said it was okay.

I'm saying that shifting the discourse towards POC injured in the protests is what many would like to do as it acquits them from larger systemic problems.

[vertical_doug]

edit



Anyone who pays even a little bit of attention to whats going on in the USA is aware of all this.

Listen, a small business owner puts in more than just money into the business. There is a ton of sweat equity as well. Some business owners are more forgiving, many more are hurt and will find it tough to come back after Covid19 shutdowns and the riots. Residents in affected area's now have to travel further to do their shopping. At least one person died protecting a business from rioters. If you think this is ok, shame on you.

I know some store owners were beaten, but where was one killed?

[sine]

protecting a friends business.

Retired police captain killed on Facebook Live while protecting friend’s pawn shop

[chasea]

Not saying anyone deserved to die but

Do you think its a safe assumption that the pawn shop had insurance? And that the cop and owner of the pawn shop lived in much nicer neighborhoods that the one in which the pawn shop operated?

[vertical_doug]

Not saying anyone deserved to die but

Do you think its a safe assumption that the pawn shop had insurance? And that the cop and owner of the pawn shop lived in much nicer neighborhoods that the one in which the pawn shop operated?

I think you are making the wrong argument.

David Dorn and George Floyd did not deserve to die. Both acts were criminal.

The problem is the 'law and order' side is arguing that because some criminals are trying to take advantage of the protests, the protests are illegitimate and some antifa conspiracy. This is nonsense.
Of course, there are trouble makers that show up, but they are not the movement or the protest. So trying to mischaracterize those acts as the representing the protest is in itself a form of racism in my opinion. I've seen it in my own small town. It's ugly, and unfortunately, I doubt the people understand that it is a voice of racism whispering in their ear. 'Watch out, they coming for you. Board up your store. Be afraid '

The police union is saying 'if you want to be protected, we police our way'. This is also nonsense. Police that act like criminals need to be prosecuted as criminals.

Recently one of my daughter's friend who is ethnic Chinese was slurred by a group of teenage boys. She was brave enough to confront them, and they just upped the ante. The girl has this combination of emotions being sad, hurt and angry. Asked if she wanted to report it, 'since she was unable to record it, the boys will just smile and deny it. Who will the town believe? One girl or 3 white boys? And their parents will be out to ruin her after this. ' This is the power of white privilege.

[chasea]

I think you are making the wrong argument.

David Dorn and George Floyd did not deserve to die. Both acts were criminal.

The problem is the 'law and order' side is arguing that because some criminals are trying to take advantage of the protests, the protests are illegitimate and some antifa conspiracy. This is nonsense.
Of course, there are trouble makers that show up, but they are not the movement or the protest. So trying to mischaracterize those acts as the representing the protest is in itself a form of racism in my opinion. I've seen it in my own small town. It's ugly, and unfortunately, I doubt the people understand that it is a voice of racism whispering in their ear. 'Watch out, they coming for you. Board up your store. Be afraid '

The police union is saying 'if you want to be protected, we police our way'. This is also nonsense. Police that act like criminals need to be prosecuted as criminals.

Recently one of my daughter's friend who is ethnic Chinese was slurred by a group of teenage boys. She was brave enough to confront them, and they just upped the ante. The girl has this combination of emotions being sad, hurt and angry. Asked if she wanted to report it, 'since she was unable to record it, the boys will just smile and deny it. Who will the town believe? One girl or 3 white boys? And their parents will be out to ruin her after this. ' This is the power of white privilege.

I didn’t make the wrong argument. I just made an argument different than your argument.

And if you don’t like what I think of pawn brokers wait til you find out what I think of landlords.

[vertical_doug]

I didn’t make the wrong argument. I just made an argument different than your argument.

And if you don’t like what I think of pawn brokers wait til you find out what I think of landlords.

I hate predators as much as you, maybe.

There is a legitimate conversation to be had on the additional financial burden of poor families from being trapped in a predatory system where they are unbanked and have enormous fees taken out for check cashing, payday lending , pawn broking... etc. It's a systemic problem of the wealthy using legal loopholes and other connections to prevent regulation. This is the problem needing addressing.

It's not a question on whether one guy's shop looted had insurance or not.

[chasea]

I guess to expand, cops disproportionately police poor minority communities. They feed private for-profit prisons that function to provide modern day American slave labor.
Pawn shops prey on the impoverished. They operate in poor neighborhoods, disproportionately minority neighborhoods.

Did the cop and the pawn broker have a right to protect the store? Absolutely. And its a shame a life was lost.
Are a cop and a pawn broker the best example s of honest, everyday, hardworking Americans? Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. I'll say no. What they were protecting was profit from exploitation.

I guess while I'm at it- so you know where I stand- I'll add that landlords hoard housing. They exploit poverty. As does anyone who pays minimum wage.

[vertical_doug]

I guess to expand, cops disproportionately police poor minority communities. They feed private for-profit prisons that function to provide modern day American slave labor.
Pawn shops prey on the impoverished. They operate in poor neighborhoods, disproportionately minority neighborhoods.

Did the cop and the pawn broker have a right to protect the store? Absolutely. And its a shame a life was lost.
Are a cop and a pawn broker the best example s of honest, everyday, hardworking Americans? Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. I'll say no.

I guess while I'm at it- so you know where I stand- I'll add that landlords hoard housing. They exploit poverty. As does anyone who pays minimum wage.

I don't disagree with any of your views on the systemic problems. I just think burning out a pawn broker and killing someone guarding it does not advance the goal of changing the system.

You need the topic of conversation to be on the unjustness of the system, not the looting of the store. That's why the biggest gain of any BLM protest was probably the peaceful one in front of the White House when the President wanted a photo op and aggressively used LEO+ to clear out the protestors with disproportionate force. People could see with their own eyes the unjustness of what was happening. Then there was blowback against the White House actions. Right now, he is huffing and puffing, but those around him will not let the same mistake happen.

If the protestors had aggressively fought back, then the conversation would be on the dangerous violent protestors and they would have been run over.

I hate to say it, but the people with power have shown restraint. At any time, they can immediately blast the protestors off the street. But if they do this just because they can, public opinion will swiftly turn against them.

It's not easy.

[chasea]

I hate to say it, but the people with power have shown restraint. At any time, they can immediately blast the protestors off the street. But if they do this just because they can, public opinion will swiftly turn against them.

It's not easy.

Shown restraint? No they haven't. They are agitators. They are antagonists. They are to-a-person upholding a racist organization that started as slave patrols and does not decrease crime. They protect wealth. They need to be demilitarized and defunded.

[chasea]

And to the next person that tells me they hope I never need a cop-

I'll never rely on a cop again if you never rely on the working poor. Let's see who's life is easier.

[theflashunc]

I hate to say it, but the people with power have shown restraint. At any time, they can immediately blast the protestors off the street. But if they do this just because they can, public opinion will swiftly turn against them.

It's not easy.

Two examples contrary to this sentiment...the cops walking down the street firing paint bags at people on their porch. The Buffalo cops who shoved an elderly guy to the ground and caused a skull fracture. The cops who regularly use chemical weapons banned by international convention from the battlefield to "disperse" protestors.

If the metric for "restraint" is they didn't set up the .50 call machine gun and just start mowing everyone down, it's time to recalibrate one's concept of "restraint."

The only thugs I've seen in the streets the last two months are the cops. Yanno, the lavishly equipped, thoroughly trained, decadently funded supposed keepers of the peace. Every police force looks like they could have rolled into Fallujah when the Marines there were knee deep in the shit, and why?