Minneapolis Social Injustice and Related

[vertical_doug]

Mattis: "When I joined the military, some 50 years ago, I swore an oath to support and defend the Constitution. Never did I dream that troops taking that same oath would be ordered under any circumstance to violate the Constitutional rights of their fellow citizens — much less to provide a bizarre photo op for the elected commander-in-chief, with military leadership standing alongside.”

Apparently very senior active personnel are sending directives reminding their personnel that they are responsible to support and defend the Constitution. I wonder if Trump finally blundered just a little too much. When the generals start rebuking you...

The answer is No. As George Will wrote earlier this week, there is no such thing as rock bottom for Trump. He will just keep escalating.
He has never apologized for anything. Back in the day, he took out full page ads in the NYTimes against the central park five. Decades later when they were exonerated, he still can't admit he was wrong. If he could come out and say he was wrong then, and George Floyd is just another example of injustice, he could de-escalate the situation. I think he is incapable of self reflection. Central Park jogger case - Wikipedia (In his ad, he wanted the death penalty brought back)

On Tuesday with press reports that he was cowering in the bunker, he had to goose step out to the church to show he was not afraid.

With General Mattis and others condemning the potential use of active military in policing, you should assume Trump is a naughty child who will try to do what the adults say not to.

You saw the articles today on the unidentified law enforcement units and DEA deployed in the capital. A large protest is planned for Saturday, seems like an accident the President wants to happen.

[Tom]

I don't expect Trump to change his behavior. What I am wondering if he's finally gotten to where the middle of the road person or even somewhat right wing person that would reflexively vote for him will look for a second and go "Ah, no." I know a few people that he lost a while back and wonder if there could be more as he acts out.

[caleb]

A cop comes up to someone, they say "I'm press" and if they've got a camera and a pen and a pad and not committing any crimes, that should be the end of it.

Cops in Minneapolis are arresting reporters live on national TV.

The reporters did nothing wrong. To imply otherwise is victim blaming.

The CNN arrest was grotesque, no question.

You mean like what most of them have? Bright vellow, reflective vests, helmets that say press on it with white paint, badges, large camera gear with lighting, the list can go on and on.

On Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday, I saw none of that. Not saying it didn't exist, but the press was describing their IDs as "badges." Logistically, that's not enough in a situation like this.

I absolutely agree that police need to respect the press and that they have often failed, but I'm not sure it was all intentional. Yes, they should be more cautious. But the city was also on fire.

[caleb]

We're finally having a discussion about how to reform the police department here. One of the models of reform that's being tossed around is Camden. More about it here: After Police Reform, Crime Falls In Camden, New Jersey - CityLab

I think this is what we want:

“For us to make the neighborhood look and feel the way everyone wanted it to, it wasn’t going to be achieved by having a police officer with a helmet and a shotgun standing on a corner,” Thomson said. Now, he wants his officers “to identify more with being in the Peace Corps than being in the Special Forces.”

A conversation with Thomson about community policing is likely to involve many such catchy maxims. “Destabilized communities,” he told me, “need guardians, not warriors.” He explained the “Back to the Future Paradox”—use technology wisely, but pair it with regular-old “Bobbies on the street.” And he stressed the idea that public safety is about access to social services, economic rejuvenation, and good schools, not just cops: “Nothing stops a bullet like a job.”

Is anyone in Camden who can speak to whether things have gotten better there?

[theflashunc]

The CNN arrest was grotesque, no question.



On Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday, I saw none of that. Not saying it didn't exist, but the press was describing their IDs as "badges." Logistically, that's not enough in a situation like this.

I absolutely agree that police need to respect the press and that they have often failed, but I'm not sure it was all intentional. Yes, they should be more cautious. But the city was also on fire.

"More cautious" is rather polite language for not holding guns on press, or firing tear gas and rubber bullets at them. And yes, some are wearing flak jackets that say press on them. The onus here is on bad cops, not on press who are doing an adequate job of identifying themselves.

Minnesota State Patrol troopers forced Los Angeles Times reporter Molly Hennessy-Fiske and photographer Carolyn Cole against a wall before firing tear gas and projectiles at them. Cole was wearing a flak jacket labeled “Press” and both displayed credentials. “Hennessy-Fiske shouted ‘Press’ at the officers and waved her notebook at them before they fired,” the complaint says. “They asked the officers where to go but received no answer. When they tried to flee, the officers chased them and fired more less-lethal projectiles at them.”

ACLU Sues Minneapolis Police Over Police Treatment of Journalists

[Clean39T]

I don't expect Trump to change his behavior. What I am wondering if he's finally gotten to where the middle of the road person or even somewhat right wing person that would reflexively vote for him will look for a second and go "Ah, no." I know a few people that he lost a while back and wonder if there could be more as he acts out.

I don't think the average person connects this to the pure evil of Mitch and Lindsey and Rand and the hundreds of other racist bootlickers in positions of power that have a stranglehold on this country. Removing Trump by any means necessary is the first step - but there is a long, long way to go if we want our country back. There is a window of opportunity here where people are paying attention - I hope it can be seized and carried into November. I do't know if we can even make it that long though before the machine spins completely out of control - there are no bounds to how low Trump will go or how far his amorphous inner-circle will bend interpretations of the law to cover him. And because of that, new articles of impeachment should be being brought immediately. A resolution a day - force the top Republicans to align with Trump on a daily basis. Use every means necessary to expose them and force sides to be taken. Cutting out a cancer is a divisive, but necessary, way to prevent its final spread and spare the host.

[Clean39T]

The CNN arrest was grotesque, no question.



On Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday, I saw none of that. Not saying it didn't exist, but the press was describing their IDs as "badges." Logistically, that's not enough in a situation like this.

I absolutely agree that police need to respect the press and that they have often failed, but I'm not sure it was all intentional. Yes, they should be more cautious. But the city was also on fire.

In Portland the police have been indiscriminately attacking demonstrators with tear gas, rubber-over-steel bullets, and flash-bangs. The city isn't on fire - there is no explanation to be had. Homeless camps having nothing to do with the demonstrations have been gassed. People caught in traffic have been gassed. People stuck in their apartments downtown have been gassed. This is america? I mean, I get the point about protecting the press, but can we just protect everyone instead?

[sk_tle]

On Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday, I saw none of that. Not saying it didn't exist, but the press was describing their IDs as "badges." Logistically, that's not enough in a situation like this.

But the city was also on fire.

City on fire or not, you don't send tear gas or worse trigger a rubber gun at someone you haven't positively identified as being violent against you or anyone else. If you cannot identify, you don't pull the trigger. Simple.

[72gmc]

Thanks for the link to the Camden article.

[j44ke]

Press badge is kind of a misnomer. It is a relatively large document or ID in a water proof envelope on a lanyard or chain worn around the neck. At least the ones I've seen were like that. They are pretty obvious, though when things get hairy they can be a liability because reporters can get grabbed by the lanyard and dragged. Watching friends work a protest in Prague, they located the captains of the police force on the job and spent a little time talking to them - here are my credentials, where do you want us, what's the plan, etc. And when the protest went mobile, my friends knew from experience how to move between the police lines and the protestors. It seemed sort of like knowing where to be in the peloton. My friends were all veteran reporters with lots of conflict zone experience so their skills were possibly better than some reporters in the US are. But that also goes for the police. An earlier protest was a WTO protest - this was a NATO protest - and the cops had completely lost control of that protest after trying to box in the protestors on a bridge, assuming that faced with water on either side and police at either end the protestors would just surrender. Instead that just enraged the protestors and they overran the cops' defensive line, officers got lost in the crowd, surrounded and beaten, and the protestors destroyed shops and other things. So for the NATO protests, the police had spent a couple years working on their technique and concentrating on de-escalation. And the NATO protests, while there were arrests and several cars vandalized, were much calmer, very few injuries, damage, no tear gas (except for the canister that went off accidentally in a police paddy wagon while the riot police were waiting for the march to start.)

Amazing what the right training does. And there is no substitute for experience.

But I'm not seeing in the footage of these events where it is all that confusing who the press is. That someone on the scene can't spot them in the crowd means they are doing their job as observers. However, a lot of these incidents are close quarter incidents with plenty of opportunity to get it right. Police just don't see protecting the press as in their best interests any longer. Just like those cops who turned off their body cameras shortly before they shot the owner of the barbecue restaurant down south. Their head is on wrong way around and no one in the leadership is reaching them successfully enough to get their head back on straight on constitutional guarantees and what their role is in protecting them. Tough job I know but if you can't get it right, go work somewhere else.

[Walter Sobchak]

Ironic, don't you think?

Some of those guys are pretty good shots.
Police Target Journalists as Trump Blames ‘Lamestream Media’ for Protests - The New York Times

[Clean39T]

The question should be: why are ANY of our citizens being treated this way?

[johnmdesigner]

The Paris flics have sang froid.

[guido]

Armed white residents lined Idaho streets amid ‘antifa’ protest fears. The leftist incursion was an online myth. | Washington Post

"Protesters had only begun assembling peacefully in Idaho when a Facebook page for retired police officers advised its followers to stay on high alert.

“We will protect our neighborhoods,” it vowed.

So when early reports about potential violence surfaced a day later — claiming “ANTIFA agitators” were storming the state this week — scores of residents took to the streets. Armed with military-style assault rifles, they stood guard in places such as Coeur d’Alene, a resort town of 50,000 on a lake in northwest Idaho.

“Enough of us swung into action, and put the word out on social media and elsewhere, that we were able to deploy and meet any violent elements that might come here from out of state,” said Trevor Treller, a sommelier and one of the armed locals. Treller, 48, said he mobilized after hearing from trusted voices that “antifa types” were on the move.

It would not prove to be true."

[gregl]

Armed white residents lined Idaho streets amid ‘antifa’ protest fears. The leftist incursion was an online myth. | Washington Post

"Protesters had only begun assembling peacefully in Idaho when a Facebook page for retired police officers advised its followers to stay on high alert.

“We will protect our neighborhoods,” it vowed.

So when early reports about potential violence surfaced a day later — claiming “ANTIFA agitators” were storming the state this week — scores of residents took to the streets. Armed with military-style assault rifles, they stood guard in places such as Coeur d’Alene, a resort town of 50,000 on a lake in northwest Idaho.

“Enough of us swung into action, and put the word out on social media and elsewhere, that we were able to deploy and meet any violent elements that might come here from out of state,” said Trevor Treller, a sommelier and one of the armed locals. Treller, 48, said he mobilized after hearing from trusted voices that “antifa types” were on the move.

It would not prove to be true."

“Antifa” is to 2020 what “Willie Horton” was to 1988. A dog whistle to draw the ignorant to the polls. I have a neighbor who is a federal agent. On a recent dog walk, he spoke of his concerns about Antifa. It was clear from a few minutes of his screed that “antifa” was just another word for evil people of color. Even a man with access to actual Government data has been taken in by the propaganda.

Greg

[guido]

Antifa is worse than evil people of color. It is evil white people who support the objectives of BLM, Occupy, atheism, gun control, illegal aliens and the whole liberal agenda. Basically George Soros' army...

[rowdyhillrambler]

I have taken on a project in a neighboring town, it’s a good and beautiful 20 mile commute by bike.. I took this picture an hour or so ago. Ironically it’s White County in TN, a real regressive sort of shit hole-this is the reason I protest, the reason for that protest-

There is no way in the fucking world that this guy gives a fair and honest chance to any black/brownperson.. there simply isn’t.

It’s a bad photo, but the Officer of the Law that lives there proceeded to yell at me for snapping pics and I got scootin’. 26D03839-9AFC-4B81-98C5-B7C43E5823B7.jpg

It’s a White County Sheriff Vehicle sitting in front of his trailer-Trump-placard and Confederate flag in the yard-

[guido]

I have taken on a project in a neighboring town, it’s a good and beautiful 20 mile commute by bike.. I took this picture an hour or so ago. Ironically it’s White County in TN, a real regressive sort of shit hole-this is the reason I protest, the reason for that protest-

There is no way in the fucking world that this guy gives a fair and honest chance to any black/brownperson.. there simply isn’t.

It’s a bad photo, but the Officer of the Law that lives there proceeded to yell at me for snapping pics and I got scootin’. 26D03839-9AFC-4B81-98C5-B7C43E5823B7.jpg

It’s a White County Sheriff Vehicle sitting in front of his trailer-Trump-placard and Confederate flag in the yard-

We have some like that in this end of things too. They don't even pretend to be neutral. Fixing is going to be such a really hard lift... Has to be done though.

[OnTheEllipse]

“Antifa” is to 2020 what “Willie Horton” was to 1988. A dog whistle to draw the ignorant to the polls. I have a neighbor who is a federal agent. On a recent dog walk, he spoke of his concerns about Antifa. It was clear from a few minutes of his screed that “antifa” was just another word for evil people of color. Even a man with access to actual Government data has been taken in by the propaganda.

Greg

I would argue it’s dog whistle-esque. It’s not as dog whistley as mentioning the 2nd amendment during a protest or “George Soros”. I mean, I don’t have a business card but I am antifa in the sense that I will meet violence with violence in the name of preventing a fascist state. At least that’s how I define it. The propaganda is that antifa is looting/trying to stir the pot to cause chaos, which is not true.

22PoliceBrutality

[BBB]

The targeting of the press (including Australian press covering the protests) is the result of 4 years of Trump's war on the press.

Fake news. Lamestream media. Enemy of the people.

Why? Because they reported on the Russia links. They reported on the lies (yes Obama's crowd was bigger than yours). They reported on the Special Counsel investigation. They reported on the absent tax returns. They reported on the comings and goings (mostly goings) at the White House. They reported on the Ukraine/Biden thing and the subsequent impeachment. They reported on the response to the virus (110,000 dead and counting on your watch).

How dare they.

The attacks on the press put the US up there with Russia et al. What a sorry situation.

It is actually hard to comprehend why such a thin skinned egotistical man put his hand up for a job that by its very nature comes with considerable scrutiny. If you don't like the heat, you shouldn't even considered stepping into the kitchen in the first place. I suspect, Trump, in much the same way as Armstrong's ill-fated comeback, now has a target on his back and once that presidential cloak of (apparent) immunity is taken away, he will find himself batting on a sticky wicket in fading light.

And the press will be there to report it all.