Grandparent Scam with Covid19 Twist

[j44ke]

My father-in-law got scammed this week by someone using a well-known narrative - cops says grandson in jail on drug charges, signed a non-disclosure agreement so his parents won't know, you're his only chance at bail, otherwise he'll have to stay in jail - with the addition of jail has Covid19 infection as a twist on leverage. The narrative is just vague enough that actual family dynamics can be transposed into it by the person who gets called. My father-in-law is convinced it is someone who knows his grandson, but when pressed for details, the scammer never said his name, never identified his mother or father by name, nor where they lived or even where the supposed jail was, etc. But my father-in-law is not well, has a heart that will kill him eventually, myriad of medications, his wife is a very good caregiver but not good at questioning authority, and my father-in-law hates his grandson's father, so his ability to sort out this situation is not great. $23,000 is gone, but fortunately he called my wife and asked her if she knew anything about our nephew just before he sent more money so she stopped that, called the cops, called the bank, called the insurance company.

The crazy part was that he was on the landline with the scammers while he was talking to my wife on his cellphone. When she realized he was talking to them and to her, she screamed at him to hang up the phone, but their hooks were so solidly set in his brain that she couldn't get him to stop talking to them and hang up! Finally his wife unplugged the phone. What a f*cking mess.

So beware this is out there. If you have older parents and kids and this narrative would fit no matter how tenuously, have a conversation with them all so they know to check in if anyone calls to say so and so has been arrested. Here's more detail on the scam from AARP.

Don't Fall Victim to the Grandparents Scam

[ides1056]

My 93-year-old stepfather and recently deceased aunt have been targets. Her care-giver overheard her give her social to some caller and it took two tries to make her stop doing this. You can't argue with obstinate stupidity in a person with diminished capacity.

[bigbill]

My dad got a call like that concerning my son being in an accident and needing money for co-pays at the ER before he'd be treated. Thankfully my dad has no money but he immediately called me and I informed him that my son was at sea on the USS Philippine Sea off the coast of Florida.

[rwsaunders]

My 94 yo Mother-in-Law initially fell for the grandson in jail scheme and went to Target and purchased two $1,000 gift cards. When she arrived home, thank goodness something kicked in and she called my kid on his cell to make sure that he wasn’t hurt. He reassured her that all was well and that he was at work. She then called my Brother-in-Law in tears and told him that the “DA” was calling her back in an hour and embarrassingly explained what she did. Well, my Brother-in-Law is a US Attorney and he drove to her house to take the call. Just as you could expect, they called from a burner phone, laughed at my Brother-in-Law telling that that he’d find them and essentially moved on to another scam target. Target was cool about the return as the clerk told me that this happens all the time and that when they question older folks why they are purchasing cards in large amounts, they are usually told to mind their own business.

I read somewhere that the scammers prey on older folks as they are more trusting of people and feel good about helping people out in bad situations. They are also appreciative of the fact that they were called upon to help, as my Mother-in-Law stated, I can only give my kids and grandkids love and money. There’s a special place in hell, that’s for sure.

[defspace]

NPR's MarketPlace program did a series on this: Brains and Losses: Aging and Financial Vulnerability to Scams - Marketplace

Scumbags.

[j44ke]

He really doesn't understand the randomness of this scheme. My wife was just yelling at him for thinking that his grandson cooked up this thing with a couple of his friends, because the people on the phone knew so many details about him. But they didn't actually. When my wife interrogated him about the whole process to figure out if any account information was given to the scammers, it became clear that all of the personal information came from my father-in-law through careful massaging by the scammers. So they just reflected everything back on him, and he thought they had all this information.

So yesterday, he was his grandson's protector and confidant, and today he thinks his grandson was in on the scam. Yeesh.

[rwsaunders]

A little humor...they tried the scam on my Dad a few years ago and he had read about it, asked the dude to hold on, turned down his hearing aids, blew an airhorn into the receiver, then called me to make sure that my kid wasn’t in jail. Even funnier, when both my Dad and my Mother-in-Law were called and they were told that it was “their grandson” and that he was in jail, they both replied...”William?” That’s my middle kid.

[j44ke]

I think my wife would like to use the horn trick with her father right now. Make him totally deaf so he can't answer the phone.

[johnmdesigner]

It's probably time for someone in your family to take charge of their finances.
It's not an easy topic to discuss with old people. I was an only child and it wasn't possible until my father passed away.
Having lots of siblings makes it worse.
Best thing is to make sure all the siblings are on board before having the discussion. Someone has to agree to be in charge.
It's a tough time for anyone. I wish you the best

[ides1056]

Speaking from experience, I would tread very lightly around any discussion of "taking over" in any capacity. That is a minefield.

[j44ke]

It's probably time for someone in your family to take charge of their finances.
It's not an easy topic to discuss with old people. I was an only child and it wasn't possible until my father passed away.
Having lots of siblings makes it worse.
Best thing is to make sure all the siblings are on board before having the discussion. Someone has to agree to be in charge.
It's a tough time for anyone. I wish you the best

I hear you. My wife and her two sisters are all together on this. That's not the issue. Have you ever seen Shakespeare's King Lear where Lear is played by Ian Holm?

[AngryScientist]

$23,000 is gone,l]

gosh jorn, i'm terribly sorry to hear this. it's heartbreaking.

when my mom passed, i took control over my dad's finances entirely. i was the only child, and he was happy to have someone do it, since my mom handles all of that. my dad, at that time was 100% in his right mind, etc, but in his 90's. once i swapped most of his stuff to my address, i was shocked at the number of scam mailings and emails i received (he never had email).

it's out there, and it's ugly and scumbags who prey on the weak. check in often and with a candid conversation with those you know.

i guess you guys may see it here too, but on our forum across the hall, Keith and the rest of us have seen a notable uptick in scammer/spammer activity trying to infultrate the forum. a few of our members even got scammed by new users PMing them for purchases. smart people lost money due to this.

be careful.

[johnmdesigner]

I hear you. My wife and her two sisters are all together on this. That's not the issue. Have you ever seen Shakespeare's King Lear where Lear is played by Ian Holm?

Sadly if it has happened once it will happen again
Someone is going to have to have "The Talk" with him. Or else you are going to experience what I did. And it wasn't pretty.
My parents and I didn't get along after college ended. We went our separate ways with a civil phone call every other week.
When they came to NY for their last visit I could see my Father was failing. I spent 3 hours on a park bench explaining to him what I thought he should do to protect my Mother if he should pass first.
The same shit you get in the AARP newsletter (which they received).
You know, house in trust, POA, organize your financial shit. I said if you didn't trust me then leave it in someone else's name.
He nodded his head.
6 months later he was dead and had done nothing.
I was left with a colossal mess because my Mother knew nothing. Worse still. now that the domineering Husband was gone she was in no mood to cooperate with me.
In the end she lost everything and ended up in a Medicaid nursing home.
I lost a good job having to go back to the Midwest to clean up all the shit and take care of her.
So yes it's really serious and you need to start planning for it now.

[DJB]

Having bumped into this situation, people getting to the point where they need some help, a few times, I would recommend avoiding language that emphasizes loss of control and does emphasize partnership. "Mom you spent your whole life looking out for me and making sure that nothing went wrong, let me have the privilege of partnering with you now so we can tackle these problems together."

Sometimes you just have to live with doing your best, knowing that it might not end well. @johnmdesigner I'm sorry to hear your story. I hope you know your efforts were a sign of your good character.

[j44ke]

Sadly if it has happened once it will happen again
Someone is going to have to have "The Talk" with him. Or else you are going to experience what I did. And it wasn't pretty.
My parents and I didn't get along after college ended. We went our separate ways with a civil phone call every other week.
When they came to NY for their last visit I could see my Father was failing. I spent 3 hours on a park bench explaining to him what I thought he should do to protect my Mother if he should pass first.
The same shit you get in the AARP newsletter (which they received).
You know, house in trust, POA, organize your financial shit. I said if you didn't trust me then leave it in someone else's name.
He nodded his head.
6 months later he was dead and had done nothing.
I was left with a colossal mess because my Mother knew nothing. Worse still. now that the domineering Husband was gone she was in no mood to cooperate with me.
In the end she lost everything and ended up in a Medicaid nursing home.
I lost a good job having to go back to the Midwest to clean up all the shit and take care of her.
So yes it's really serious and you need to start planning for it now.

Sorry to hear this. These things are tough. Parents become strangely independent kids when they get older. Go figure. I mean they have only been doing this for 70 years. And they raised us. So who are we to tell them what to do? "You're not the boss of me!" What are you, a 87 year old adolescent?

OT slightly, but there is a lot about the way that Trump acts (NOT his politics) that reminds me of my father-in-law right now. Uncanny.

He was born in the Bronx, father died from TB, so he was raised by his mother in the 1930's. They moved to Coney Island when they were given an apartment by a Jewish Charity. He worked as a chicken plucker when he was 10 years old. Made a quarter a day. Various wealthy members of his synagogue recognized he was smarter than your average kid and made sure doors opened for him. Fought for everything he got after that though. Hard to imagine, but it wasn't easy being Jewish in NYC then. And poor. Went to Stuyvesant. Then Brooklyn College and Columbia. 5 years in the army post-WWII. Used to trade his cigarette rations for hotel rooms in Paris so he could visit the museums and opera and see the orchestra. Rode around on a motorcycle. Came back and married above his station. Raised three tough-ass daughters. His wife died after 11 years of cancer treatments. He remarried. Still lives in the same house. Nice art collection. Avid reader. Just gave away $23K to someone on the phone.

[Tom]

Partnering is the way to go. Fortunately Karen and her brother are totally in sync and when Karen's dad died Karen's been sitting with her mother every Saturday going through the mail and paying the bills, dealing with all the MRDs and everything together. So there's been no sibling issues, boy can I tell you that has the potential to be a giant problem, and Karen and her mom are side by side through everything.

[johnmdesigner]

I knew my Father wouldn't listen to me so I even enlisted the help of a willing Cousin that lived close to them. They seemed to appreciate her looking after them though they did bitterly complain about her failures.
It's true. You can't hold a gun to someone's head and make them do the right thing.
I've just never understood my Father's generation. Yes, he had a difficult life (much of it caused by his own behavior) but he turned out OK with 50 years of marriage and a wife that allowed him to have his own way.
I married late in life and have no children. I just don't understand why an older parent would not be more considerate to their children who will ultimately have to be responsible for them. I couldn't be that selfish.
I tried to keep my Mom in her home but she just refused to cooperate in any way. And it was all but impossible to manage a caregiver from 600 miles away even with my Cousin helping.
I started her out in a beautiful assisted living facility in her town. But as the money ran out she was forced to move into places with less than ideal conditions.
I finally had to sell her house to pay her bills. When I cleaned it out I found saved cancelled checks from the 1970's in the attic. Didn't it dawn on you to prepare for the future?
And she just bitterly complained all the time through this.
It's a tough thing to go through and I don't wish it on anybody. I would never set foot in a nursing home again under any circumstances.
You are lucky Jorn in that your Wife's family are all on board. Hopefully gentle persuasion will make him come to his senses.

[rec head]

My grandma has been taken by computer scammers twice. I think the 2nd time my mom got involved early enough that she didn't give them any money. Granny can no longer do any type of online banking. My dad's wife was in her 60's and got taken by computer scammers. She actually went to the store to buy Apple gift cards to pay them with since that was their preferred method. When she got back my dad thought it sounded pretty fishy and called me. I told him she was scammed. She hadn't paid them yet which was lucky.

This thread is a great reminder to review the scams with them.