Virus thread, the political one.

[j44ke]

Any reading of this administration's immigration policy as rooted in something other than a kind of scapegoating, racism and xenophobia -- as long as Stephen Miller is a senior advisor to the President and essentially his chief speechwriter -- is extremely naive, I think.

The President has been flailing for weeks now to lay blame for this crisis at the feet of anyone else and abdicate any "buck stops here" responsibility for what's happened. Immigrants are an easy target for that when we're obviously well past the point of worrying about immigration as the primary means of this virus spreading in the US.

The playboook hasn't changed, just the rallies are now the daily briefing on the pandemic. The President hasn't changed and will not change. This is who he is.

Oh I agree. But that's what I was saying in reference to Dirk's comment that good things aren't recognized here on VSalon. Trump is the worst person to be delivering his administration's information, because he is essentially such a bad translator. Everything gets fed through the decoder of his view of humanity (racism), who among his advisors he most listens to with focused attention (Miller), and his ego (I'm a genius). And yet, there is no way to avoid having him as The Presenter. He may do a lot of things that are abhorrent to a sizable precentage of Americans, but because he delivers everything the same way, his production renders anything the slightest bit positive coming out of his administration moot. That he is driven by his own dark appetites is a given.

Or as you say, "The President hasn't changed and will not change. This is who he is."

Fauci could have the best most egalitarian approach to pandemic control ever, but unfortunately it has to go through Trump first.

[zachateseverything]

Your understanding is not correct. They have been doing the most testing anywhere in France and gave the treatment to all the positives as early as possible. Their study has now many thousands of patients in it (forgot the exact number, it's going up everyday). They had about 5 to 10 deaths total. The treatment only works in early stages and is useless once in the ICU as the virus is not your problem anymore at that point. Many control study groups are ongoing, their results will be known once the epidemic is over.

Yeah, this doesn't jive with reason. Choloroquine isn't really an anti-viral.

From what I've come across this has all the markings of a folk remedy. but please, provide to actual evidence and data to refute that.

Is France’s president fueling the hype over an unproven coronavirus treatment? | Science | AAAS
No evidence of rapid antiviral clearance or clinical benefit with the combination of hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin in patients with severe COVID-19 infection - ScienceDirect

[theflashunc]

Oh I agree. But that's what I was saying in reference to Dirk's comment that good things aren't recognized here on VSalon. Trump is the worst person to be delivering his administration's information, because he is essentially such a bad translator. Everything gets fed through the decoder of his view of humanity (racism), who among his advisors he most listens to with focused attention (Miller), and his ego (I'm a genius). And yet, there is no way to avoid having him as The Presenter. He may do a lot of things that are abhorrent to a sizable precentage of Americans, but because he delivers everything the same way, his production renders anything the slightest bit positive coming out of his administration moot. That he is driven by his own dark appetites is a given.

Or as you say, "The President hasn't changed and will not change. This is who he is."

Fauci could have the best most egalitarian approach to pandemic control ever, but unfortunately it has to go through Trump first.

The show always has to be about him, sadly.

[Lionel]

Here is the data as of today. Raoult results are at the bottom right 3039 treated, 12 death. Above is the entire region 4599 mostly not treated (even though some may have been), left is the world. All the rest is just news. These are facts.

[j44ke]

So Lionel, if it works - and the key is getting it to the patient early - it would have to be in tandem with early accurate frequent testing. One would have to know that the patient has Covid19 in the early stages.

I don't know if this is a global issue or just the US, but testing seems - at least from the reading I've done - unreliable and unattainable. Sort of like the joke, "The food here is awful. Yes, and such small portions." And testing is still typically denied anyone early in the disease's development, because (as we've heard over and over in patient narratives) the treatment for covid and the flu is the same regardless so go home and isolate.

[murphy]

So Lionel, if it works - and the key is getting it to the patient early - it would have to be in tandem with early accurate frequent testing. One would have to know that the patient has Covid19 in the early stages.

I don't know if this is a global issue or just the US, but testing seems - at least from the reading I've done - unreliable and unattainable. Sort of like the joke, "The food here is awful. Yes, and such small portions." And testing is still typically denied anyone early in the disease's development, because (as we've heard over and over in patient narratives) the treatment for covid and the flu is the same regardless so go home and isolate.

There are examples of countries which have done better during all of this due to testing (South Korea and Germany come to mind) so I don't think it is purely a technical issue with testing. The US position of leaving states to fend for themselves in terms of testing though has definitely exacerbated things here.

[mzilliox]

Jorn is getting at something essential here. I have tried explaining this to some in my circle who still like trump. It no longer matters what trump does or doesnt do, it will be a shittier thing than it has to be, because that is what he does. he takes anything he touches and drags it through his mud. the people buying alex jones vitamins like this particular brand of mud, so they rub it on their faces to stay young or whatever. but the rest of us are like wtf? thats just mud.

this summarizes trump. on any given thing, he could introduce it then let an adult speak about it. btu he cant, can he? he has ot sign all the checks, he has to have someone tell him which ones are Is and Ts so he can dot and cross them all by himself. he has to be on tv, always, good or bad.

this is exactly why hes a bad leader and no good for this country.
because even if he does something good, he coats it in poop first, then makes everyone wash ti off before using.

so for those who still like him and his style, know that what you like is his weakness. its literally what prevents folks like me from giving him any benefit of doubt ever, because he poops on everything. and hes never told it like it is, thats so ridiculous, and anyone who says that immediately discounts their opinion's value.

[vertical_doug]

Here is the data as of today. Raoult results are at the bottom right 3039 treated, 12 death. Above is the entire region 4599 mostly not treated (even though some may have been), left is the world. All the rest is just news. These are facts.

If I were to evaluate this, I'd look to see if they are screening patients out before giving any treatment. That way you bias the study by excluding those patients who have problems from the get go. You end up with the healthier pool to work with and a result which is basically a healthy human immune response. (Obviously, I may be wrong. I am just skeptical. I assume they already normalized for demographics)

[zachateseverything]

Here is the data as of today. Raoult results are at the bottom right 3039 treated, 12 death. Above is the entire region 4599 mostly not treated (even though some may have been), left is the world. All the rest is just news. These are facts.

Was there a control group? It doesn't seem like it from the reports I've seen. This is a pretty good rundown of the current available evidence.

“Miracle cure” testimonials aside, azithromycin and hydroxychloroquine probably do not work against COVID-19 – Science-Based Medicine

[Lionel]

If I were to evaluate this, I'd look to see if they are screening patients out before giving any treatment. That way you bias the study by excluding those patients who have problems from the get go. You end up with the healthier pool to work with and a result which is basically a healthy human immune response. (Obviously, I may be wrong. I am just skeptical. I assume they already normalized for demographics)

Patients were not screened just tested.

[Lionel]

So Lionel, if it works - and the key is getting it to the patient early - it would have to be in tandem with early accurate frequent testing. One would have to know that the patient has Covid19 in the early stages.

I don't know if this is a global issue or just the US, but testing seems - at least from the reading I've done - unreliable and unattainable. Sort of like the joke, "The food here is awful. Yes, and such small portions." And testing is still typically denied anyone early in the disease's development, because (as we've heard over and over in patient narratives) the treatment for covid and the flu is the same regardless so go home and isolate.

Mass reliable testing is the crux of the issue. We are nowhere near ready for this in France as well as many other countries.

[suspectdevice]

Even if z-packs and grandma’s arthritis medicine WERE effective prophylactic treatment- it completely misses the fact that medical care is not available in the United States to the most vulnerable.

If you don’t have a PCP (like 23million + Americans) you don’t have access to prescription medicine.

If you live in a state like Tennessee, South Carolina or Georgia and you are poor, chances are the hospital closest to your home either closed in the last few years or is almost completely un-funded. For most rural Americans Covid testing sites are 50-200 miles away round-trip.

Arguing about drug effectiveness at this point is beyond meaningless.

[mzilliox]

Dan Patrick: ‘There Are More Important Things Than Living’

so this is how some parts (most parts? minority?)of the republican party feel. it should be quite easy for anyone here to understand why thinking people would take issue with this position. this is what being a republican is today, whether you like or think it or not. if you identify republican at this point in your life, and the countries life, this is the kind of ideas you stand for. it doesnt matter what your ideal of the republican party is, it doesnt matter how many kids you named after how many republicans, this is today what your party stands for. do you agree? do you accept this?
i dont

[mzilliox]

Even if z-packs and grandma’s arthritis medicine WERE effective prophylactic treatment- it completely misses the fact that medical care is not available in the United States to the most vulnerable.

If you don’t have a PCP (like 23million + Americans) you don’t have access to prescription medicine.

If you live in a state like Tennessee, South Carolina or Georgia and you are poor, chances are the hospital closest to your home either closed in the last few years or is almost completely un-funded. For most rural Americans Covid testing sites are 50-200 miles away round-trip.

Arguing about drug effectiveness at this point is beyond meaningless.

this shows you are thinking past the surface, thanks!

[nmrt]

Talking about the Raoult's studies: Here is an excerpt from Science (Is France’s president fueling the hype over an unproven coronavirus treatment? | Science | AAAS) that cast doubts on the methodologies used by Raoult.

"The popular faith in hydroxychloroquine stands in stark contrast to the weakness of the data. Several studies of its efficacy against COVID-19 have delivered an equivocal or negative verdict, and it can have significant side effects, including heart arrhythmias. Raoult’s positive studies have been widely criticized for their limitations and methodological issues. The first included only 42 patients, and Raoult chose who received the drug or a placebo, a no-no in clinical research; the International Society of Antimicrobial Chemotherapy has distanced itself from the paper, published in the society’s International Journal of Antimicrobial Agents. The second study, published as a preprint without peer review, didn’t have a control group at all."

Here is the data as of today. Raoult results are at the bottom right 3039 treated, 12 death. Above is the entire region 4599 mostly not treated (even though some may have been), left is the world. All the rest is just news. These are facts.

[mzilliox]

why are we discussing some half assed solution? it doesnt work on any scale worthy of mention, period. time to move on to something that might. holding onto this is only a waste of time and resources

[zachateseverything]

Even if z-packs and grandma’s arthritis medicine WERE effective prophylactic treatment- it completely misses the fact that medical care is not available in the United States to the most vulnerable.

If you don’t have a PCP (like 23million + Americans) you don’t have access to prescription medicine.

If you live in a state like Tennessee, South Carolina or Georgia and you are poor, chances are the hospital closest to your home either closed in the last few years or is almost completely un-funded. For most rural Americans Covid testing sites are 50-200 miles away round-trip.

Arguing about drug effectiveness at this point is beyond meaningless.

I would agree with that if people weren't using perceived drug effectiveness as an excuse to discontinue social distancing.

[King Of Dirk]

why are we discussing some half assed solution? it doesnt work on any scale worthy of mention, period. time to move on to something that might. holding onto this is only a waste of time and resources

Sorry, for a moment I thought you were talking about the Biden campaign.

[fastupslowdown]

How the virus is impacting our food supply and prices. some food is getting destroyed , some is getting marked down and other itmes seeing prices rise. -Mike G

Subscribe to read | Financial Times

[suspectdevice]

I would agree with that if people weren't using perceived drug effectiveness as an excuse to discontinue social distancing.

The drugs aren’t available to the people who NEED them.
I know 3 different elders just here in the SW VA mountains who are without their proscribed meds right now due to hoarding by opportunists with prescription pads.

Simply, the drugs, like masks and toilet paper, evaporated into the illogical morass.