Virus thread, the political one.

[Todd Amunrud]

No need for apologies. I am a healthcare professional and agree 100% with the assertion, as do, oh, I'd say about 95% of my peers. A comprehensively broken system and if you believe otherwise you're one of the lucky few who has never been seriously ill, never had a loved one suffer a serious illness, or are just so wealthy you don't care.

Same here. The difficult conversation in our small organization is thinking salary-based pay will promote "laziness" versus production-based pay.

[monadnocky]

Same here. The difficult conversation in our small organization is thinking salary-based pay will promote "laziness" versus production-based pay.

I've never understood this. I see some people pro-bono, some pay my private pay rate, and most reimburse my services through insurance. I don't work less hard (so to speak) for my pro-bono folks than I do for my private-pay people. I just do my thing. It never even occurs to me when I provide the services I provide - I just go into work mode. I can't imagine any healthcare provider even has this in his or her mind as they do their job. Laziness? Huh?

[vertical_doug]

Same here. The difficult conversation in our small organization is thinking salary-based pay will promote "laziness" versus production-based pay.

It's like in Oliver Twist when the poor starving Oliver asks 'If he can have some more gruel' . Of course the over fed hypocritical gentlemen on the board just had to get rid of the ungrateful orphan. 'More'... next thing they will want gristle on the bone. That makes these kind violent.

When I hear Mitch McConnell saying they have to let unemployment benefits expire so people are forced to go back to work, I just think Mr. Bumble, the parish beadle for Church Trump,

We need a modern Dickens to put our current stupid to ink and paper.

[guido]

NYTimes 6/30

[guido]

Opinion | We Know How to Beat the Coronavirus. This Is How Republicans Can Do It. - The New York Times

"The coronavirus is still raging, particularly in states like Texas, Arizona and Florida. We already know what it takes to beat it. We just need to do it.

As infection rates rapidly rise in many red states, Senate Republicans can and should legislate to protect their constituents and their country. It’s good politics to save lives while saving the economy. They can start by taking a page from other advanced market economies that managed to turn the corner on the pandemic and safely restore normalcy. In addition to mask-wearing, these countries have all adopted a strategy to test, trace and isolate the virus out of circulation.

Taiwan was the first country to use it effectively. Applying lessons gleaned from SARS, which emerged in Asia in 2002, Taiwan immediately traced (and closely studied) its first 100 cases. It was able to avoid community spread altogether — topping out at 447 total cases — without a lockdown. South Korea was slower, but eventually suppressed its outbreak to fewer than 13,000 cases without a widespread lockdown. Germany, Australia and New Zealand have all adopted the same strategy to avoid reinstating their lockdowns. By detecting and containing new outbreaks before they spread, these market economies plan to stay open, resilient and competitive, while America’s economy loses ground amid new waves of infection.

Many Republicans think that market incentives and private-sector spending will be enough to drive innovation in diagnostics and therapeutics and to spur manufacturers to finally churn out enough tests. But this is wrong. The private sector alone can’t contain Covid-19.

Stopping disease spread is a classic collective-action problem. Relying on businesses and institutions like churches and possibly schools to stop the spread of an infectious disease is akin to relying on private security to stop terrorism. The well-to-do have the means to protect themselves with defensive testing, but the rest of us will be left on our own, potentially leaving the disease free to spread through vulnerable communities.

Private institutions then need to spend even more — digging their moats deeper, building their walls higher — to stave off the virus. It’s the worst possible outcome: The disease continues to rampage, costs for defensive testing pile up, social inequities deepen and our sputtering economy never takes off because no one really feels safe.

Private testing, like private security, is inefficient because private institutions lack the intelligence and authority to strategically target and subdue threats beyond their walls.

The proven strategy for virus suppression relies on contact tracing through communities. The bulk of testing is initially aimed at symptomatic individuals in health care settings and likely hot spots, with additional testing in “critical contexts” like nursing homes, prisons and meatpacking plants susceptible to disease spread. All contacts of any positive case are traced until the chain of transmission yields zero positives. In a successful suppression surge, contact tracing turns up the vast majority of positive cases.

The U.S. strategy should start by breaking states down into colored zones, representing levels of outbreak: green is the safest, followed by yellow, orange and red. The counterintuitive trick is to focus on lower-incidence yellow and orange zones before higher-incidence red zones, because lower-incidence zones require less testing and tracing to stop community spread and can stay open with safety precautions during a surge.

Within a state, just a few months of surging testing and tracing can result in green zones — which means less than one new daily case for every 100,000 people. Once a zone falls into the green, people no longer have to fear outbreaks at school, church or work. To stay green, states maintain a minimum level of testing and tracing to identify and quash new infections before they spread."

[ides1056]

Never happen.

[Todd Amunrud]

I've never understood this. I see some people pro-bono, some pay my private pay rate, and most reimburse my services through insurance. I don't work less hard (so to speak) for my pro-bono folks than I do for my private-pay people. I just do my thing. It never even occurs to me when I provide the services I provide - I just go into work mode. I can't imagine any healthcare provider even has this in his or her mind as they do their job. Laziness? Huh?

Right! I really love my work and experiences with patients/families.

[bigbill]

When I hear Mitch McConnell saying they have to let unemployment benefits expire so people are forced to go back to work, I just think Mr. Bumble, the parish beadle for Church Trump,

Not sure if there is data, but I have a hard time getting people to apply for jobs where I work. Staying on unemployment pays $900 a week through the end of the month, most non-skilled jobs pay way less than that. I expect a lot of applicants after July, unless the benefits are extended. I think the benefits should be phased out as job openings increase.

[vertical_doug]

Not sure if there is data, but I have a hard time getting people to apply for jobs where I work. Staying on unemployment pays $900 a week through the end of the month, most non-skilled jobs pay way less than that. I expect a lot of applicants after July, unless the benefits are extended. I think the benefits should be phased out as job openings increase.

Bill, the irony here is that is precisely my point. Maybe for a variety of reasons , wages have been kept artificially low..

Mr. Bumble told the people watching Oliver not to give him bones. Because bones have gristle and given too much nourishment, the poor get aggressive.

[Sbti]

"He doesn’t know what he’s talking about. He has been wrong every time on every issue. We haven’t skipped over anything. The only thing I’m skipping over is listening to him. I don’t need his advice anymore.”
- Texas Lt. Gov. Dan(Gramps should die for the economy) Patrick on Dr. Anthony Fauci

“It is a fatal conceit to believe any one person or small group of people has the knowledge necessary to direct an economy or dictate public health behavior. I think government experts need to show caution in their prognostications."
- Sen. Rand Paul

Today:
"We’re headed back in a very strong fashion with a V. And I think we’re going to be very good with the coronavirus. I think that at some point that’s going to sort of just disappear, I hope."
-IdjIt

[bigbill]

Bill, the irony here is that is precisely my point. Maybe for a variety of reasons , wages have been kept artificially low..

Mr. Bumble told the people watching Oliver not to give him bones. Because bones have gristle and given too much nourishment, the poor get aggressive.

Wages are what the market pays over the minimum. My company operates on a small profit margin and that is why the plants are located in smaller towns with a low cost of living. The minimum wage in AZ is $11 and we pay entry-level about a dollar more than that. $900 a week in unemployment is $22.50 an hour as long as the incentives last. If you can make that much for doing nothing, why would you return to work?

[vertical_doug]

Wages are what the market pays over the minimum. My company operates on a small profit margin and that is why the plants are located in smaller towns with a low cost of living. The minimum wage in AZ is $11 and we pay entry-level about a dollar more than that. $900 a week in unemployment is $22.50 an hour as long as the incentives last. If you can make that much for doing nothing, why would you return to work?

I don't disagree on that. I am merely saying the 'market' isn't a weighing machine when some people can put their thumb on the scale and rig the system. Ask yourself why does Amazon pay 15.50 an hour for drivers? Because Amazon (Uber and Walmart and others) aggressively anti-union to prevent collective bargaining to level the field. (Arizona is a 'Right to Work' State- which is euphemism for right to work for a low wage) This thumb on the scale works to push wages down on all the service providers and workers downstream trickle down... feeling thirsty?

I'm not saying a union is the cure , but something needs to help balance worker interests versus the capitalist. And now the 'gig' economy for companies that think paying minimum wage is too much and everyone can be an independent contractor.

[guido]

Wages are what the market pays over the minimum. My company operates on a small profit margin and that is why the plants are located in smaller towns with a low cost of living. The minimum wage in AZ is $11 and we pay entry-level about a dollar more than that. $900 a week in unemployment is $22.50 an hour as long as the incentives last. If you can make that much for doing nothing, why would you return to work?

Given the current spike in cases in AZ they should be paying people triple to stay home. The way most EU countries funneled the payments through companies to let people stay home while avoiding the disruption of layoffs is infinitely more humane, but keeping people socially distant is absolutely required to beat this virus and save lives. There were 12 thousand cases in the last three days there. Forcing people back to work is getting close to murder.

[guido]

Donald Trump is the reason for America’s disastrous coronavirus response - Vox

"“America is the global exception right now,” says Gregorio Millett, director of public policy at amFAR. “Just look at the EU or New Zealand or countries across Asia. These places have vastly different cultures, different geographies, different institutions, different everything — but the one thing they have in common is that everyone is following public health measures. And they’ve all kept this virus at bay. Our leaders decided to politicize a scientific issue and as a result, our curve looks different than the rest of the world’s.”

Which raises the question: Is political polarization literally killing us?"

[thollandpe]

Is political polarization literally killing us?"

This the price for letting the needs of the few outweigh the needs of the many.

[guido]

This should be a national disgrace...

[bigbill]

Given the current spike in cases in AZ they should be paying people triple to stay home. The way most EU countries funneled the payments through companies to let people stay home while avoiding the disruption of layoffs is infinitely more humane, but keeping people socially distant is absolutely required to beat this virus and save lives. There were 12 thousand cases in the last three days there. Forcing people back to work is getting close to murder.

I get that about the AZ numbers, but the state isn't a homogenous community. The community of Kingman has very few cases remaining with just a couple a day, almost all related to a known case. Mohave County is off the chart due to one community which is an hour away. We're three hours from Phoenix, five from Tucson, two from Flagstaff, and two from Vegas. We have mandatory face covering at work and on property. We have hourly wipe downs of all touch surfaces. Everyone is screened for temperature upon arrival. Closing down is not an option unless it is permanent.

[jclay]

Donald Trump is the reason for America’s disastrous coronavirus response - Vox

Which raises the question: Is political polarization literally killing us?"

The data are pretty clear: "yes"

[zachateseverything]

I get that about the AZ numbers, but the state isn't a homogenous community. The community of Kingman has very few cases remaining with just a couple a day, almost all related to a known case. Mohave County is off the chart due to one community which is an hour away. We're three hours from Phoenix, five from Tucson, two from Flagstaff, and two from Vegas. We have mandatory face covering at work and on property. We have hourly wipe downs of all touch surfaces. Everyone is screened for temperature upon arrival. Closing down is not an option unless it is permanent.

I'm not sure the issue is with manufacturing centers or other facilities closed to the general public that take reasonable precautions like modifying workspaces and procedures to avoid close contact between employees, upping clean schedules, doing some screening of employees. and since there's oversight on who is in the plant on a given day the ability to trace and isolate infections among employees is there.

where I'm seeing this spread is dumbasses, particularly younger people, socializing without masks, especially in indoor spaces like bars and restaurants.

[Sbti]

Venerable teabagger, and presidential candidate Herman Cain tests positive for COVID-19 after attending the Tulsa super spreader event. No one could have seen this coming. Tots and pears.