Smart Thermostat w/Wired Remote Sensors

[j44ke]

Our HVAC guy is getting ready to install thermostats in our house. He plans on installing Honeywell T6 Pro Smart Thermostats (TH6220WF2006) and connecting them to remote wired sensors. There are four zones in our radiant floor system, so there are four sensors, one in each zone.

I noticed that he kept saying "thermostats" so I said what do you mean thermostats - how many? He said each zone gets its own thermostat. So we'll have four thermostats on the wall, one for each of the zones.

The sensors are in whatever room each zone is in, but the thermostats will be together on the wall in a line, albeit out of the way and fairly unobtrusive. But really? Four thermostats?

He's going to check on multi-zone thermostats.

Radiant floor is basically set it at a good ambient temp and forget it. You don't adjust day versus night, because the turn-around on degree changes is so slow. As our GC said, you'd have to turn it down in the morning so it would be sleeping temperature by bedtime and then just before you went to bed, you'd turn it up so it will be warm in the morning.

So we won't use geofencing (scary sh*t there) or "learning" algorithms or any complicated scheduling. We will need the ability to adjust by zones as every room as different ambient temperature needs - like our bedroom with all the windows. And we will need the ability to check on the temp while away and adjust it up or down remotely.

I just can't get over a management solution that requires 4 thermostats, especially using wired sensors which we are doing and especially since it is to control heating-only.

What does the VSalon brain-trust say? I need 4 thermostats?

[guido]

With that level of thermal stability why not simplify and just go one zone/thermostat? Unless you are planning on having different temps in each zone it is just an efficient way to complicate things...

[j44ke]

With that level of thermal stability why not simplify and just go one zone/thermostat? Unless you are planning on having different temps in each zone it is just an efficient way to complicate things...

Because I have a wife? The temps in the bedroom cannot be the same as the temp in the living room. She sleeps nuclear hot, so she wanted zones. I know right now that even though she's gotten the lecture on how radiant floor heating works, she will get up in the middle of the night and turn the heat off. We may eventually set everything to the same temp, but that will be well after the house is finished.

[guido]

Because I have a wife? The temps in the bedroom cannot be the same as the temp in the living room. She sleeps nuclear hot, so she wanted zones. I know right now that even though she's gotten the lecture on how radiant floor heating works, she will get up in the middle of the night and turn the heat off. We may eventually set everything to the same temp, but that will be well after the house is finished.

I have the equivalent. Women are such fascinating puzzles aren't they?

[j44ke]

I have the equivalent. Women are such fascinating puzzles aren't they?

How a person can put out that much heat...

[guido]

How a person can put out that much heat...

Just the opposite in this household...

[Saab2000]

I don’t have zones but I got a smart thermostat when I bought my new house. I got an Ecobee. I tried to install it but quickly realized the instructions didn’t match what I was seeing so I called in a pro. He said if I hadn’t already had the Ecobee he recommends the Honeywell product.

All I have to say on that.

My HVAC will need replacement in the next year or two and at that time I may go with this Honeywell product. And zones.

Other than that, I’m super pleased with my Ecobee.

[Bobonli]

Ask this Old House had a segment on this. Saw it recently (it could've been years old) on Youtube. I'll try to find it.

[Mabouya]

My only comment is this:

Be sure you're getting the right type of temp control system (humidity too? I guess not if you're only going to have heat, and not cooling) for your application, not just the system that your HVAC guy happens to know and is comfortable installing.

[thollandpe]

Radiant heat is also nice because it self-regulates. Radiant heat transfer is proportional to the temperature difference to the fourth power so as the rest of the room gets closer to the radiant surface’s temperature, the heat transfer strongly decreases. And vice versa.

But a radiant floor is tough in a bedroom, because you don’t “see” the radiant surface when you’re in bed, and the bed hides most of that surface. This is why a radiant ceiling is boss for a bedroom.

Don’t sweat the four zones. Each zone needs a temp sensor in it. Watch the zones that could use a fast-acting response, like entries or somewhere that can see a big influx of cold air. Or a kitchen where people and cooking activity could quickly add a whole bunch of heat. These will be a challenge. Radiant heat is like a little tugboat that bumps a big thermal ship in the right direction.

And, controls suck. They’re way too complicated and cost way too much. I just put in a Nest (actually two, one at my kid’s house as well). I’m pleased, it’s a simple interface with a whole bunch of learning inside.

How much your system will need to adjust depends on two things. Usage, is the house unoccupied for significant amounts of time? If so it needs to set back. And the prime mover. If it’s a fossil-fuel fired boiler then it likes to be fired up and run at full throttle. If it’s an air-source heat pump, it’s like a long-distance cyclist. Keep the needle out of the red and apply the effort in a thin, even coat.

[NYCfixie]

In our house (aka apartment) we both run hot when we sleep. No heat and windows open all winter.

In addition, we just purchased a new Tempur-Pedic Tempur-Breeze mattress and got the one that keeps you 8 degrees cooler. It actually works! I love science and these new materials.

Because I have a wife? The temps in the bedroom cannot be the same as the temp in the living room. She sleeps nuclear hot, so she wanted zones. I know right now that even though she's gotten the lecture on how radiant floor heating works, she will get up in the middle of the night and turn the heat off. We may eventually set everything to the same temp, but that will be well after the house is finished.

I have the equivalent. Women are such fascinating puzzles aren't they?

How a person can put out that much heat...

[thollandpe]

In our house (aka apartment) we both run hot when we sleep. No heat and windows open all winter.

If you have to open the windows in winter, where is the heat coming from? There ain’t no free.

[j44ke]

Radiant heat is also nice because it self-regulates. Radiant heat transfer is proportional to the temperature difference to the fourth power so as the rest of the room gets closer to the radiant surface’s temperature, the heat transfer strongly decreases. And vice versa.

But a radiant floor is tough in a bedroom, because you don’t “see” the radiant surface when you’re in bed, and the bed hides most of that surface. This is why a radiant ceiling is boss for a bedroom.

Don’t sweat the four zones. Each zone needs a temp sensor in it. Watch the zones that could use a fast-acting response, like entries or somewhere that can see a big influx of cold air. Or a kitchen where people and cooking activity could quickly add a whole bunch of heat. These will be a challenge. Radiant heat is like a little tugboat that bumps a big thermal ship in the right direction.

And, controls suck. They’re way too complicated and cost way too much. I just put in a Nest (actually two, one at my kid’s house as well). I’m pleased, it’s a simple interface with a whole bunch of learning inside.

How much your system will need to adjust depends on two things. Usage, is the house unoccupied for significant amounts of time? If so it needs to set back. And the prime mover. If it’s a fossil-fuel fired boiler then it likes to be fired up and run at full throttle. If it’s an air-source heat pump, it’s like a long-distance cyclist. Keep the needle out of the red and apply the effort in a thin, even coat.

Yeah. So the more I think about it, the more I think something like the HVAC guy suggested might be the best option. The Honeywell T6 can be set up pretty simply. Each automation I don't want can be shut off independently and run "stupid" while leaving the WIFI running to allow remote control. Plus it can manage wired sensors. One model up or down or sideways has more automation and more algorithms but no wired sensors. Wired sensors are the preference of the architects, the GC, the concrete floor guy and the HVAC guy, so...

I'm going to wait to see if the HVAC guy comes up with anything more compact, but this is helpful Todd - thanks.

[Matthew Strongin]

Just the opposite in this household...

Seriously. In my house we fold the blanket in half, taking my side and flipping it over my wife to double her up. She's in full PJs under two layers of blankets and I'm barely under a sheet and sweating.

Also, am I the only one that thinks "smart" systems are concerning? Maybe that's because I work in tech or maybe that's odd since I work in tech, but I want as few components in my house connected to the internet as possible. And things like smart devices aren't exactly models of security.

[Saab2000]

Also, am I the only one that thinks "smart" systems are concerning? Maybe that's because I work in tech or maybe that's odd since I work in tech, but I want as few components in my house connected to the internet as possible. And things like smart devices aren't exactly models of security.

This is why I got the dumbest Ecobee I could. I don't want the smart functions but I really did want remote monitoring and control. I'm gone for days from my townhome and set the thermostat to 46ºF when I'm gone. It rarely goes that low but during the depths of January it will occasionally dip that low at night in the house. I'm just trying to run the furnace as little as possible to save gas.

Then, when I'm about 2 hours away, the last leg back to Chicago, I'll set it to my normal temp and come home to a warming house. If I wait until I get home I've got several hours until it is warm. Obviously, different issues exist where you live. The biggest fear in the upper Midwest during a long absence is a failure of the heating and subsequent frozen pipes.

[sk_tle]

Also, am I the only one that thinks "smart" systems are concerning? Maybe that's because I work in tech or maybe that's odd since I work in tech, but I want as few components in my house connected to the internet as possible. And things like smart devices aren't exactly models of security.

I'm with you on this one, and yes I am also working in tech (system engineer in a devops environment). The only thing I can remotely imagine being connected to the internet are things I would have setup and manage myself but I also know that when I go home I don't want to feel being at work again so it is pretty much all analogic at home.

[NYCfixie]

If you have to open the windows in winter, where is the heat coming from? There ain’t no free.

We don't turn on the heat ever. We currently live in a rather large apartment building and everyone else turns up their heat which in our opinion overheats our apartment.

For perspective, we kept our NJ home at 60 during the day and 58 at night which meant we begrudgingly turned on the heat in the winter so pipes would not freeze.

[NYCfixie]

Also, am I the only one that thinks "smart" systems are concerning? Maybe that's because I work in tech or maybe that's odd since I work in tech, but I want as few components in my house connected to the internet as possible. And things like smart devices aren't exactly models of security.

As you know, I also work in tech and do not want gadgets in my house (except for my TV and AppleTV) but did you not get the memo (aka email) which stated the robots are taking over?

[monadnocky]

If you have to open the windows in winter, where is the heat coming from? There ain’t no free.

My brother lives in a Park Slope apartment. The building was built during the Bronze Age and is heated by steam coming from.... somewhere? Hell? Anyway, they have no control over the heat and the entire apartment appears to get all the heat it needs from: 1) a mystery pipe that runs floor to ceiling near a wall in their kitchen, which is hotter than the surface of the Sun, and 2) similar pipes in two small bedrooms that also appear to contain a fusion reaction in them. They have no control over the heat of any sort as far as I can tell - ?

And the odd thing is, they - and their two kiddos - appear to be used to it. My wife and I go to visit and we're practically in our underwear walking around the place it's so hot (even with the kitchen window open).

I kind of remember this when I lived in an apartment in the Back Bay (Boston) in an old brownstone. No way to really control the heat (it was on or it was off, and when it was on, it was infernal). Is this common in East Coast US cities?

[NYCfixie]

My brother lives in a Park Slope apartment. The building was built during the Bronze Age and is heated by steam coming from.... somewhere? Hell? Anyway, they have no control over the heat and the entire apartment appears to get all the heat it needs from: 1) a mystery pipe that runs floor to ceiling near a wall in their kitchen, which is hotter than the surface of the Sun, and 2) similar pipes in two small bedrooms that also appear to contain a fusion reaction in them. They have no control over the heat of any sort as far as I can tell - ?

You just perfectly explained our 10 year stay in Stuyvesant Town (lower east side of Manhattan). We were only a few blocks away from the ConEd steam plant which probably only made it worse. No surprise, we had all the windows open all winter. The best you can hope for in these older steam apartments is to turn the valve off so the steam does not actually go into the radiator and just heads upwards to the next apartment; it helps some.

At least in NJ we could control the heat in our own home and in Boston we never turn the heat on but there would be days in StuyTown that we were literally suffocating it was so hot.