Covid19

[Saab2000]

This is so painful to read: New York Hasidic Jewish Communities Hit Hard by Coronavirus - The New York Times

Yes, it is. I am grateful each time I refresh my NYT app for articles like this. It’s a community I’m aware of but know little about beyond what I read and find out from others with closer ties.

I read the article sitting in the back of a sparsely filled flight today (yes, there are some flights happening).

[fastupslowdown]

Yes, it is. I am grateful each time I refresh my NYT app for articles like this. It’s a community I’m aware of but know little about beyond what I read and find out from others with closer ties.

I read the article sitting in the back of a sparsely filled flight today (yes, there are some flights happening).

There was another article in the NY Times about a Chasidic community in Israel that deeply distrusted the state and secular ways. They were getting devastated by Covid-19. Thankfully the chief rabbi of the community saw things were getting out of control and did the unthinkable and ask for help from the Israeli army who came in and enforced social distancing. When it comes to diseases like this whether you are Jewish, Muslim or Christian, Observant or Secular the virus doesn't care .Churches and Synagogues were the first to get hit. Fortunately most religious leaders are now acting responsibly. But it makes me angry to read those stories where the leaders defy the authorities and insist on holding services or functions. It's one thing to risk one's own life but to risk the lives of your followers? I can't speak for other religions but this goes contrary to what Judaism teaches. I assume Christianity and Islam believe likewise. -Mike G

[htwoopup]

As a person somewhat versed in marketing, I am very troubled by how the desire to comfort as opposed to scare is causing people to pooh pooh the severity of the problem.

The daughter of a dear friend is a physician in an ICU in suburban NYC. She said it has not slowed down. She has been working 12 hours on/ 12 hours off for a long time. She said she lost 8 patients to this disease on yesterday's shift. She said that when another of the physicians that she works with was on a national newscast the other day, they were reminded again to be "nice" and not be totaling forthcoming about the horror.

The son of another friend is an ER physician in another hospital in the same system also in suburban NYC. He said he has not seen a covid negative patient in over 3 weeks. He also said it is not slowing down. He sounded to me like he had been to the gates of hell and didn't see how it was ever going to be good. He also said he was told to "just do your job".

On Sunday, the governor of NY said that he had been pressuring people/ hospitals to give the numbers. But that he was basically told that time spent doing that would be time taken away from treating patients. As in Eff off.

But why don't the hospitals see that the more they can tell the truth about how it is, the less patients they will have suffering from this because the folks not taking it seriously and doing right by distancing and so on would be perhaps gobsmacked into doing right if they heard and saw the reality?

Is it just like airplane pilots who are taught to speak in a calm reassuring voice and act like everything is under control while two of the plane's engines are on fire?

Is there any reason that can be justified to not reinforce to the public that this is a hair on fire kind of situation?

I thought that maybe this should be in the other thread, but I was really looking for someone in the field to enlighten me about why this downplay thing is the right way to handle trying to control the spread.

[fastupslowdown]

Human vaccine trials to start this week

Coronavirus: Evening update as human vaccine trials to start this week - BBC News

I think the first phase-2 drug trial of a vaccine started recently. Hoping one of them works out but we're talking 12-18 months based on what the experts are saying...

[Saab2000]

On a related note, a friend of mine who is a flight attendant with United Airlines had all the symptoms of COVID-19 back in January. She even was diagnosed with mild pneumonia. It was after an elective surgical procedure she had right around the end of December or beginning of January, shortly before this started to be a thing.

She recovered well but when this story hit the news she was adamant that she had had it. I said, “yes, but with no test you’ll never know...” Well, a friend of hers works in the medical world and her employer was looking for possibly exposed people for an experimental antibody test. She took the test and the results came back that she does in fact test positive for the COVID-19 antibodies, but that this is no guarantee of future immunity. Lawyer talk, but still worthy words.

Anyway, it’s interesting. The way forward is hard data and today she is a small piece in a larger data puzzle. Nothing is ever certain and she says the negative tests are the ones which leave more uncertainty but a positive test is probably a positive test.

[beeatnik]

^Is she based on the West Coast?

[Saab2000]

^Is she based on the West Coast?

Negative. She’s based in Chicago but flies worldwide of course and the US domestic routes connect global passengers within 24 hours.

If you know someone with the same story it’s not likely the same person. But not impossible either.

[bcm119]

As a person somewhat versed in marketing, I am very troubled by how the desire to comfort as opposed to scare is causing people to pooh pooh the severity of the problem.

The daughter of a dear friend is a physician in an ICU in suburban NYC. She said it has not slowed down. She has been working 12 hours on/ 12 hours off for a long time. She said she lost 8 patients to this disease on yesterday's shift. She said that when another of the physicians that she works with was on a national newscast the other day, they were reminded again to be "nice" and not be totaling forthcoming about the horror.

The son of another friend is an ER physician in another hospital in the same system also in suburban NYC. He said he has not seen a covid negative patient in over 3 weeks. He also said it is not slowing down. He sounded to me like he had been to the gates of hell and didn't see how it was ever going to be good. He also said he was told to "just do your job".

On Sunday, the governor of NY said that he had been pressuring people/ hospitals to give the numbers. But that he was basically told that time spent doing that would be time taken away from treating patients. As in Eff off.

But why don't the hospitals see that the more they can tell the truth about how it is, the less patients they will have suffering from this because the folks not taking it seriously and doing right by distancing and so on would be perhaps gobsmacked into doing right if they heard and saw the reality?

Is it just like airplane pilots who are taught to speak in a calm reassuring voice and act like everything is under control while two of the plane's engines are on fire?

Is there any reason that can be justified to not reinforce to the public that this is a hair on fire kind of situation?

I thought that maybe this should be in the other thread, but I was really looking for someone in the field to enlighten me about why this downplay thing is the right way to handle trying to control the spread.

I've been wondering about this. I don't quite understand the "facts not fear" messaging. They aren't mutually exclusive-- the facts are scary. And fear seems like a far more effective motivator for distancing and other precautions than "because the state said so". What is the problem with being afraid? Fear is a useful emotion, without it we'd all have been eaten by lions eons ago.

[j44ke]

Brother of my wife’s close friend from law school died. He was a doctor at NYU. A few hours after hearing about his death, one of my wife’s colleagues in her field of law and a gracious mentor to my wife lost her husband. Tough day and it certainly doesn’t feel like things are slowing down. Just feels like it is getting closer.

My wife’s friend is a writer. She once asked me for advice, and I basically told her don’t take my advice. I’m a poet. She didn’t, and now she’s a great writer. And she wrote something lovely about her brother. On the nausea of bereavement

[mjbabcock]

Fear is being marshaled for sure. The right is using fear of government overreach, fear of second amendment restrictions, fear of immigrants, fear of economic collapse....tons of fear in its quest for victory in November.

[beeatnik]

Trevor Bedford believes that it's 100% unlikely (don't recall the exact quote) that the virus was circulating in the US in Nov or Dec of 2019 but if your friend became infected in Dec and the first US death occurred weeks earlier than believed, well, the plot thickens.

Santa Clara County Coronavirus Death Is First Known in U.S. - The New York Times

Negative. She’s based in Chicago but flies worldwide of course and the US domestic routes connect global passengers within 24 hours.

If you know someone with the same story it’s not likely the same person. But not impossible either.

[vertical_doug]

On a related note, a friend of mine who is a flight attendant with United Airlines had all the symptoms of COVID-19 back in January. She even was diagnosed with mild pneumonia. It was after an elective surgical procedure she had right around the end of December or beginning of January, shortly before this started to be a thing.

She recovered well but when this story hit the news she was adamant that she had had it. I said, “yes, but with no test you’ll never know...” Well, a friend of hers works in the medical world and her employer was looking for possibly exposed people for an experimental antibody test. She took the test and the results came back that she does in fact test positive for the COVID-19 antibodies, but that this is no guarantee of future immunity. Lawyer talk, but still worthy words.

Anyway, it’s interesting. The way forward is hard data and today she is a small piece in a larger data puzzle. Nothing is ever certain and she says the negative tests are the ones which leave more uncertainty but a positive test is probably a positive test.

But there are two possibilities-

1. She did have the virus
2. The test gave a false positive

The tests are still experimental and researchers are not sure it doesn't cross react with antigens/antibodies from other coronaviruses. There are at least 4 other types of coronavirus (229E, NL63, OC43, HKU1) which are mild and not to be confused with COVID19. It was one of the problems they had with developing a serology test for MERS. 3/4 of the tests had cross reactivity with other human coronaviruses.

It is a flaw in Stanford study and the Santa Clara study.

[Saab2000]

But there are two possibilities-

1. She did have the virus
2. The test gave a false positive

The tests are still experimental and researchers are not sure it doesn't cross react with antigens/antibodies from other coronaviruses. There are at least 4 other types of coronavirus (229E, NL63, OC43, HKU1) which are mild and not to be confused with COVID19. It was one of the problems they had with developing a serology test for MERS. 3/4 of the tests had cross reactivity with other human coronaviruses.

It is a flaw in Stanford study and the Santa Clara study.

Or it could be that since she had the symptoms, including actual diagnosed pneumonia and subsequently tested positive for the antibodies that she actually had it. Her case will be paper of larger data gathering.

Big data is what this situation needs.

[vertical_doug]

Or it could be that since she had the symptoms, including actual diagnosed pneumonia and subsequently tested positive for the antibodies that she actually had it. Her case will be paper of larger data gathering.

Big data is what this situation needs.

Obviously which is why it is the first possibility but not the only. However, it really does move the timeline up substantially from first known cases in Wuhan, to transmission into US. In effect, she becomes patient zero in the US.

[sk_tle]

So I have been sick in the last 4 days with some symptoms but they are so common with other that it is hard to give a definite answer. No loss of taste or smell, no respiratory issue except a light dry cough and a sore throat. Now feeling a bit better and I have started working again this morning. I've seen it can comes in several phases with kind of remissions in between. We will see. It would be logical that I am the patient zero in the family as I am the only one getting out of the apartment for groceries but I was secretely hoping that my antics in late feb / early march would have made me an early infected person and that I would have been asymptomatic.

[Sbti]

Big city escapados. The next wave?

Top vacation spots the wealthy fled to during the coronavirus pandemic - Business Insider

[j44ke]

Big city escapados. The next wave?

Top vacation spots the wealthy fled to during the coronavirus pandemic - Business Insider

A lot of buzzwords in that article, and really this is a little late on an issue that has already been reported ad nauseum, hasn’t it? As far as I can tell, the people who came up here are basically the same people I usually see. The only difference is they are not going back to the city after the weekend. And most of the people who came up are over 55 or parents with small children.

We’ve been keeping tabs on rentals in the area just out of interest. The prices are the same and there is still plenty of availability. The next real change in the population will be in late June. Then we might see more people coming up from the city, but that happens every year. It is called summer vacation. And places up here have been summer spots for NYC people since the 1880’s.

My wife and I have scheduled shopping for once a week. We go to a local farm run by a young couple - she is from Italy and he is born and raised here. They met in the restaurant business. They produce great vegetables and have started acting as an aggregator for other farms who have goods for market. You order online, they give you a pickup time and you drive to their barn and pick-up your box. No contact, no problems. You can pre-buy credit to be used as needed which gives them operating expenses until the crop comes in. And you can buy credit for the local food banks, and the farm will coordinate with them on produce. We’ve been doing $1:$1 matching. Others have too.

The county has been great. They said everyone is welcome. Please come rent a house. Just be sure to quarantine when you arrive and then afterwards wear a mask wherever you go outside of your house. The hospital has been steadily ramping up since early March. They said in advance that serious cases may be transported to Albany or NYC. Do not expect local care, but you will receive care. The sheriff’s dept. has a service where a deputy will stop by any house that needs a welfare check on a daily basis. Just call and they’ll set it up for you or any elderly or infirm family member. A group of high school kids has organized themselves to deliver groceries and necessities to the elderly and infirm. You order your groceries, they pick them up at the grocery and drop them off at the door.

The manager of the small local grocery here in town has been a wizard of stocking. He’s gotten all sorts of things in that nearby groceries haven’t had in weeks. After the first couple weeks, there has always been toilet paper (1-3 per family) and paper towels. The owner of our favorite local market has her staff coming in and preparing food early in the morning. Then they go home and she takes over during open hours. Homemade soup, bread, and lots of other things. Masks required, one person only per family in the shop, she’ll tell you at the door whether she has what you want, and better next time to call ahead. She says she has sold more roasted whole chicken last month than any month in the last 3 years.

Just saying, it doesn’t have to be us versus them. It can just be us. I am sure there are people up here who feel invaded. But the rest of them are just neighbors.

[j44ke]

So I have been sick in the last 4 days with some symptoms but they are so common with other that it is hard to give a definite answer. No loss of taste or smell, no respiratory issue except a light dry cough and a sore throat. Now feeling a bit better and I have started working again this morning. I've seen it can comes in several phases with kind of remissions in between. We will see. It would be logical that I am the patient zero in the family as I am the only one getting out of the apartment for groceries but I was secretely hoping that my antics in late feb / early march would have made me an early infected person and that I would have been asymptomatic.

First spring in the new environment with new pollen and dust? So sore throat and light cough is just as easily allergies. Perhaps allergies you may not have had in Suisse?

[sk_tle]

First spring in the new environment with new pollen and dust? So sore throat and light cough is just as easily allergies. Perhaps allergies you may not have had in Suisse?

That wouldn't explain fever, head pain and sore body. But yes it can be anything.

[Paul Jacobs]

There will be no more outdoor ride reports from me for a while. My wife has developed mild symptoms consistent with Covid 19 disease. She works as a nurse on a non-coronavirus ward but one of the patients she has been looking after and one of her co workers have just both tested positive. My wife has a test scheduled for tomorrow. Meanwhile, and possibly for the next 14 days, we are all confined to the boundaries of our home.