Covid19

[Matthew Strongin]

I agree. But I have little confidence that others will adopt that attitude. I have yet to talk to an acquaintance without a certain cognitive dissonance manifested by a false sense of security: if I stay away from you I won't get sick; because, of course, I'm not infectious. Regional differences, I'm sure.

Same here. While I'm fairly impressed with how well Miami has embraced being locked down, I still know plenty of people who are unwilling to give up some of their routine or creature comforts. Other than exercising solo, we're on lockdown here. No take-out, no socially distant parties or group gatherings, pretty much nothing but isolating as a family. I have friends and family who still go out for that cafecito or get take-out regularly. Some haven't embraced the idea that if they decide to get together with just one other group, but people in that other group are also meeting up with different other groups, they're part of the spread.

[vertical_doug]

Coronavirus: Transforming London's ExCeL centre into Nightingale hospital - BBC News

They are setting it up as a large hospice. Its pretty horrible to think about. The 16,000 healthcare workers who volunteer to work there are very special.

[Lionel]

Same here. While I'm fairly impressed with how well Miami has embraced being locked down, I still know plenty of people who are unwilling to give up some of their routine or creature comforts. Other than exercising solo, we're on lockdown here. No take-out, no socially distant parties or group gatherings, pretty much nothing but isolating as a family. I have friends and family who still go out for that cafecito or get take-out regularly. Some haven't embraced the idea that if they decide to get together with just one other group, but people in that other group are also meeting up with different other groups, they're part of the spread.

Matt, if you want to be really serious about it, ask yourself the question on why you are still riding outside long distances.

[vertical_doug]

Chinese Ministry of Commerce has moved to ban firms not licensed to manufacture medical supplies from exporting their products. The GOV is worried about complaints about quality. It's a good move on their part.

Coronavirus: China bans export of test kits, medical supplies by firms not licensed to sell them at home | South China Morning Post

Knowing how the Chinese government deals with fraud, I expect people to be sentence to death and families forced to buy the bullet. That is how they dealt with financial fraud in the past.

[Matthew Strongin]

Matt, if you want to be really serious about it, ask yourself the question on why you are still riding outside long distances.

It's a fair question, but I'd ask whether the perceived risk is about contracting COVID-19 or the risk of injury and putting strain on the healthcare system. I'm riding generally alone (I did one ride with a couple guys where we kept a ton of space), mostly on routes that I don't normally ride so I avoid people and taking it easy (no group rides, no hammering, etc.). I'm trying to find balance between being strict enough to make a difference while still getting a mental break that's key to my sanity. I'm an introvert who usually gets at least 3-4 days a week with quiet time at home to recharge. I haven't been alone (apart from those rides) for 2 1/2 weeks. So I get that there's some selfishness and perhaps even hypocrisy, but I still think riding alone and not interacting or coming in contact with others on roads that are generally empty is still lower risk than getting groceries or other provisions.

[Lionel]

It's a fair question, but I'd ask whether the perceived risk is about contracting COVID-19 or the risk of injury and putting strain on the healthcare system. I'm riding generally alone (I did one ride with a couple guys where we kept a ton of space), mostly on routes that I don't normally ride so I avoid people and taking it easy (no group rides, no hammering, etc.). I'm trying to find balance between being strict enough to make a difference while still getting a mental break that's key to my sanity. I'm an introvert who usually gets at least 3-4 days a week with quiet time at home to recharge. I haven't been alone (apart from those rides) for 2 1/2 weeks. So I get that there's some selfishness and perhaps even hypocrisy, but I still think riding alone and not interacting or coming in contact with others on roads that are generally empty is still lower risk than getting groceries or other provisions.

Matt, 2 posts ago you were talking about people not been able to give up their routine for take out and other things but you do not seem to apply this to yourself. I think this is the same for cycling outside right now; I gave it up myself even though I obviously love it and there is very little to no chance for me to see anyone on local trails and of course no chance to spread or catch the virus. There is also very little chance to crash as I am so good :) For me at this point it's about compassion for the situation, the front line workers and the ones mourning their deaths.

[Matthew Strongin]

Matt, 2 posts ago you were talking about people not been able to give up their routine for take out and other things but you do not seem to apply this to yourself. I think this is the same for cycling outside right now; I gave it up myself even though I obviously love it and there is very little to no chance for me to see anyone on local trails and of course no chance to spread or catch the virus. There is also very little chance to crash as I am so good :) For me at this point it's about compassion for the situation, the front line workers and the ones mourning their deaths.

We'll just have to disagree, then. Getting takeout where there are people preparing your food, delivering your food, and then you shoveling the food into your mouth is a different level of exposure than riding around and not seeing anyone or touching anything. My post above wasn't about demonstrating compassion for those on the front lines or those suffering from the virus. It's about transmission risk. About people thinking that getting coffee at the local bodega and then sipping from a cup they handed you is safe because you didn't also go to work that day. It's impossible to eliminate all risk of exposure, so we're doing our best to balance all aspects of our health, including our mental well being and that of my young son. We're completely isolated from the rest of our family, despite pleas from both my son and our parents to have real life contact. We haven't eaten anything we didn't prepare ourselves in over 3 weeks. We have developed an insane process for transitioning groceries from the delivery person to our kitchen. We're taking this seriously. Being alone outside with fresh air is pretty low on the list of risk factors. And, for what it's worth, I'm also not riding in any and all conditions like I usually do. It's raining here now and I'm inside (and going to lift weights in a few) when normally I'd just ride in the rain. So, yes, my comments very much do apply to me and my family, but we're focusing on transmission risk and holistic health as our priorities.

[Lionel]

Just get on Zwift. Not riding outside for 2 months is a small concession to make. I expect it will soon be banned anyway in the US as the death toll will climb very quickly.

[ldamelio]

As someone who is professionally in the thick of it, I have to side with Matt on this one. Any sacrifice that objectively diminishes the chance of spreading the virus is an absolute obligation of any thinking human at this point. Riding outside is not one of them (solo, JRA). I see the same debates on the auto forums (Rennlist) - a short drive at legal speeds to take in the scenery is perfectly safe. We all have to make sacrifices, but monastic anhedonia is not an evidence-based antiviral. As always, ATMO.

[Too Tall]

"For me at this point it's about compassion for the situation, the front line workers and the ones mourning their deaths. "
Lionel what you said is very noble. My respect.

My personal routine, sans close by family, is the same as Matt. Quite frankly if I did not get outside for some bicycle riding I'd likely publish a manifesto, grow a throat beard and wear tin foil all not in that order. Mental health is a muthafukah brother.

To your point, which is not esoteric, were I to fall down and go boom. I'd self treat to the nth degree possible eg take adult responsibility with eyes wide open to NOT put health care workers at risk nor remove services for those who need it most due to my selfish pursuit of (optional) mental health via exercise.

Despite my long thought, the Governor of Maryland says it is Okey Dokey for me to ride my bicycle outside for exercise as long as it is not excessive (his words not mine).

LOL Just imagine me sitting in my workshop staring at a brand spankin' new 44bikes and not riding that sukah? Might make a good video ;)

[ldamelio]

The thought of burdening the health care system (with a riding injury) is noble, but misplaced. Anything remotely possible on a routine ride (let's say, a clavicle fracture or the like), is less than a drop in the ocean of a burden on the health care system. I respect Lionel's sacrifices as a gesture of goodwill, but they don't resonate at the front line or with the unfortunate who have lost a loved one. Great respect to both of you, but this level of self-deprivation isn't necessary. I would kill to have two free hours for a ride at the moment. It would cheer me more to see a picture of you guys on the new 44, the Aerotack, the 997 or the GT3T than it does to picture you at home.

[DCT]

Just get on Zwift. Not riding outside for 2 months is a small concession to make. I expect it will soon be banned anyway in the US as the death toll will climb very quickly.

I’ll quit cycling before using Zwift. I’ve been riding most days. Taking it easy on descents but cycling outside seems safe. Barely anyone around and incredibly satisfying mentally and physically.

[Too Tall]

The thought of burdening the health care system (with a riding injury) is noble, but misplaced. Anything remotely possible on a routine ride (let's say, a clavicle fracture or the like), is less than a drop in the ocean of a burden on the health care system. I respect Lionel's sacrifices as a gesture of goodwill, but they don't resonate at the front line or with the unfortunate who have lost a loved one. Great respect to both of you, but this level of self-deprivation isn't necessary.

Thanks Lou. I'm putting you in my will. We plan to die broke so it's just going to be a heap of NFS. That works right?

[deano]

Obviously everyone needs to be mindful of their surroundings but at the same time don't overthink this. If you have a second degree burn, a cut significant enough to require stitches, or a venomous snakebite you should still go to the Urgent Care or Emergency Room. Your risk of contracting and dying from covid-19 due to a single hospital visit is a lot lower than having a bad result from self treating a mild to moderate injury.

Not to worry - I am not that tough in real life.

[Chik]

The simulations are ew. Humans are ew.

[zachateseverything]

I’ll quit cycling before using Zwift. I’ve been riding most days. Taking it easy on descents but cycling outside seems safe. Barely anyone around and incredibly satisfying mentally and physically.

Same. I'm keeping off of the local greenways and presumably mtb trails (if it ever stops raining) because of crowding but solo road rides just aren't much of a transmission vector. You don't interact with people doing them.

It isn't like I'm climbing into an airplane for an international flight or participating on group rides.

[Lionel]

Yeah, right..... I think these last few posts explain why it will be very difficult for the US. It's a very self centered culture. Not that it is bad in general but in this case it will be. I still read reports of people coming back from spring break everywhere, most of my friends ride their bikes every day outside, 100km or more rides are common. Oh well, in the meantime I got to level 19 on Zwift lol.

I wish I could post pictures of the GT3T, but the battery will be dead flat before I can see it again.

[Lionel]

I respect Lionel's sacrifices as a gesture of goodwill, but they don't resonate at the front line or with the unfortunate who have lost a loved one.

Actually they do. You have countless front line medical worker begging for people to stay home and totally mad when they see people jogging or riding in their nice fluorescent kits.

[Lionel]

The thought of burdening the health care system (with a riding injury) is noble, but misplaced. Anything remotely possible on a routine ride (let's say, a clavicle fracture or the like), is less than a drop in the ocean of a burden on the health care system.

For me it has nothing to do with this. In 40 years of riding I had to use medical services only twice (knock on wood). So yeah risks are super low and I am not worried about this or worried about spreading the virus alone on trails. But we are not allowed to go out more than once a day to exercise and not more than one hour and not farther than 1km from your house. You can choose to ignore it because you have a rational analysis on the fact that you are not taking any risks and not risking anybody else either. You can further rationalize that this rules are made for people living in cities large cities (I am not). So you have plenty of people making their own rules, are they spreading the virus: no. Are they overwhelming the hospitals: no. Are they acting responsively: no. Let's lead by example.

[vertical_doug]

The simulations are ew. Humans are ew.

Basically, this supports Matt and others to ride outside solo away from people. The simulation is closed air environment, so your biggest risk will be if you live in multi-family residential and ride elevator, stairwell or other closed room. (hallway with poor ventilation) Once you are outside, it is quickly dispersed.

It's pretty simple Brownian motion. Just ride on windy days. If this is too high a probability of being infected, we are literally all doomed.