Who will challenge Trump? Who you like?

[Corso]

Do you have a point? Particularly regarding our senator, who famously said:

"I am a capitalist. Come on. I believe in markets. What I don’t believe in is theft, what I don’t believe in is cheating. That’s where the difference is. I love what markets can do, I love what functioning economies can do. They are what make us rich, they are what create opportunity. But only fair markets, markets with rules. Markets without rules is about the rich take it all, it’s about the powerful get all of it. And that’s what’s gone wrong in America."

So I don't even begin to buy whatever you're trying to sell.

We should also distinguish between socialism and communism. Sanders is not a communist and has never been a communist.

What's my point?

Bernie: A self proclaimed socialist. 2.5 million gets a "meh- not so much money" be some here, but I bet there are millions of voters who he's targeting with "free stuff" would beg to differ. I never said he was a Communist. I don't blame anyone from making money - but I hate those with wealth to pretend they don't have it.

Warren: I Never said she was a socialist, my "fair share" is parroting her words, she's said for years, "the rich need to pay their fair share". Her wealth tax proposals seem to target the rich folks (richer than herself). She could always pay more taxes herself, thus paying her "fair share", but she pays what is required, and looks for every deduction she can find, just like the rest of us.

She's wealthy. She should stop talking like she's not.

I don't expect David to buy anything negative about our senator, so I'm not attempting to get in a slugging match over her.

My beef with her? She's done nothing noteworthy for Massachusetts, for the people who voted for her.

[thollandpe]

My beef with her? She's done nothing noteworthy for Massachusetts, for the people who voted for her.

Here’s a list of legislation that she’s sponsored and cosponsored. Just a quick scan and I can see no shortage of legislation that would benefit citizens of the Commonwealth.

Elizabeth Warren | Congress.gov | Library of Congress

[theflashunc]

My beef with her? She's done nothing noteworthy for Massachusetts, for the people who voted for her.

Other than chair the oversight committee for the $700 billion TARP program, play an instrumental role in the creation of the CFPB -- the only government agency tasked with representing consumer interest in the banking industry -- and supporting bills that would generally make the industry less predatory for every day folks. She's been a tireless advocate that the financial system in this country socializes losses, privatizes profits and generally provides a shit deal for any working people.

Yup, done nothing noteworthy alright. The TARP program and CFPB were before she was elected, so I guess that part's half correct.

[Corso]

Here’s a list of legislation that she’s sponsored and cosponsored. Just a quick scan and I can see no shortage of legislation that would benefit citizens of the Commonwealth.

Elizabeth Warren | Congress.gov | Library of Congress

But you couldn't name anything that directly affected you and I without googling, could you?

[Corso]

Other than chair the oversight committee for the $700 billion TARP program, play an instrumental role in the creation of the CFPB -- the only government agency tasked with representing consumer interest in the banking industry -- and supporting bills that would generally make the industry less predatory for every day folks. She's been a tireless advocate that the financial system in this country socializes losses, privatizes profits and generally provides a shit deal for any working people.

Yup, done nothing noteworthy alright. The TARP program and CFPB were before she was elected, so I guess that part's half correct.

Thanks, an answer from California, the main source of funding of her first election. She's my senator, not yours. Yeah, she set up the CFPB, but proved to be so difficult she wasn't allowed to run it. But I'm sure your going to tell me it was her choice not to run it...

In any case, any talking of Liz is farting in the wind, as she's not going to be on the ticket.

[theflashunc]

Thanks, an answer from California, the main source of funding of her first election.

In any case, any talking of Liz is farting in the wind, as she's not going to be on the ticket.

Used to live in the North End and lamented when Victor Hugo closed.

Did Californian's show up en masse to give her 60% of the vote in 2018? Clearly someone there likes what she's doing.

[Corso]

Used to live in the North End and lamented when Victor Hugo closed.

Did Californian's show up en masse to give her 60% of the vote in 2018? Clearly someone there likes what she's doing.

I just wish those folks could say how she's made life better for those who voted for her. I'm not just pulling this out of my saddlebag, I've asked many of my fellow massholes the same question, and no one could say (other than similar general and vague postings here) what she's done for us in the Commonwealth. Just saying.

[caleb]

I just wish those folks could say how she's made life better for those who voted for her. I'm not just pulling this out of my saddlebag, I've asked many of my fellow massholes the same question, and no one could say (other than similar general and vague postings here) what she's done for us in the Commonwealth. Just saying.

The "do nothing" criticism can be leveled at just about any rank and file Senator.

But any American with a mortgage, or student loans, or a credit card has likely had their lives affected by the DFPB.

I think there are very few Senators who can claim to have been the energy behind a program or office that has touched most Americans.

Of Senators, Warren is probably one of the handful of those who are least open to the do-nothing moniker.

[mjbabcock]

Serious question, How would any senator claim to have accomplished anything with McConnell in place. With a Congress split between parties, and a guy who prides himself on stopping everything in charge, no one is getting anything done.

[Corso]

The "do nothing" criticism can be leveled at just about any rank and file Senator.

But any American with a mortgage, or student loans, or a credit card has likely had their lives affected by the DFPB.

I think there are very few Senators who can claim to have been the energy behind a program or office that has touched most Americans.

Of Senators, Warren is probably one of the handful of those who are least open to the do-nothing moniker.

If you like her, then vote for her. I'm not telling anyone not to, I'm just laying down a few reasons why I'm not.

[fastupslowdown]

Bloomberg did far better in the 2nd debate. He should avoid joke telling but he did what he had to. Frankly I don't understand Elizabeth Warren. Either she simply hates Bloomberg or she cut a deal with Sanders to be his wingman. I doubt the former and believe the latter. Nothing else makes sense. Her strategy has no apparent direct benefit. Sanders has the votes she needs and her numbers did not go up after the first debate. Did he offer her VP? She knows she can't win at this point -Mike G

[jclay]

Michael Hudson: The Democrats’ Quandary – In a Struggle Between Oligarchy and Democracy, Something Must Give | naked capitalism

[Blue Jays]

"...Did he offer her VP? She knows she can't win at this point..."

Interesting idea, @fastupslowdown. You may indeed be right about that potential debate strategy.
Senator Warren could be very aggressive with Mayor Bloomberg if the VP role has been discussed between her and Senator Sanders.

[JJohnson]

So... uh... last night's debate was a shit show. How do you even host a debate with the minimum ticket price at $1700? The time for debates has passed. We need long form town halls where candidates can sit down and discuss their plans in detail instead of 30 second soundbites that the media can run with. We also need to stop letting the money curate the questions. Not a single climate question yet again, but it's the most dire issue for future generations.

[HorsCat]

Interesting idea, @fastupslowdown. You may indeed be right about that potential debate strategy.
Senator Warren could be very aggressive with Mayor Bloomberg if the VP role has been discussed between her and Senator Sanders.

If the Dems want to guarantee Trump’s reëlection - and it certainly seems as if they are at least open to the idea - then a Sanders/Warren ticket is the way to go.

[thollandpe]

I just wish those folks could say how she's made life better for those who voted for her. I'm not just pulling this out of my saddlebag, I've asked many of my fellow massholes the same question, and no one could say (other than similar general and vague postings here) what she's done for us in the Commonwealth. Just saying.

The first piece of legislation she introduced was an official condemnation of the Boston Marathon bombing. Followed by an official commemoration for the victims. Any of your fellow massholes remember Boston Strong?

[fastupslowdown]

After last night I'm more convinced than ever that Sanders on the ticket would be an unmitigated disaster. No real record of passing legislation in the Senate and taken in aggregate his plans would bankrupt the country. Bloomberg was absolutely right the party needs the support of independents and moderate republicans to win in the general and having Sanders at the top of the ticket could mean huge losses in the house and senate. I'm sure the party leadership is well aware of this.

And this is coming from someone who believes student loan debt is a problem that must be fixed , we need to work on health care but the solutions offered are not realistic
-Mike G

[jclay]

After last night I'm more convinced than ever that Sanders on the ticket would be an unmitigated disaster. No real record of passing legislation in the Senate and taken in aggregate his plans would bankrupt the country. Bloomberg was absolutely right the party needs the support of independents and moderate republicans to win in the general and having Sanders at the top of the ticket could mean huge losses in the house and senate. I'm sure the party leadership is well aware of this.

And this is coming from someone who believes student loan debt is a problem that must be fixed , we need to work on health care but the solutions offered are not realistic
-Mike G

Sanders has been opposing the entrenched interests for ever. Is it any wonder that he's faced nothing but opposition?

Bankrupt the country??

Based on the reading I've been doing for years, Canada's single payer has a per capita cost that's about 2/3 of what we pay. Just the non-medically productive activities necessitated by our private pay insurance based HC system consume roughly 1/3 of our total HC expenditures ( Health Care Administrative Costs in the United States and Canada, 217 | Annals of Internal Medicine | American College of Physicians ). We should be able to realize similar savings. How does that bankrupt us?

The question is not the number of dollars but which dollar buckets do we use. Personally I think billionaires should be taxed out of existence. That degree of wealth concentration is bad news for maintenance of societies worth living in. The issue needs to be re-framed from typical sophmoric Ayn Rand-ish arguments; This is a useful intro and Thomas Piketty's Capital in the 21st Century tome is well worth reading:

To Tackle Inequality, We Need To Start Talking About Where Wealth Comes From | naked capitalism

Endless wars and an ever burgeoning MIC....that can bankrupt us but nobody seems to question it; So too can enormous tax breaks for the uber wealthy. Reference your history books for examples though it should be obvious on the face of it.

Continuing to ignore changes required by global climate change will get expensive.

If you think education is expensive, try the alternative. Even if Bernie gets elected and the Senate goes to the dems, that's when the real work of figuring out how far to go with this and that starts....the curve starts bending.

What's expensive is failing to recognize and respond sensibly to the signals of a changing world. That can get mighty expensive.

I'm off to do something productive.

[fastupslowdown]

Sanders has been opposing the entrenched interests for ever. Is it any wonder that he's faced nothing but opposition?

Bankrupt the country??

Based on the reading I've been doing for years, Canada's single payer has a per capita cost that's about 2/3 of what we pay. Just the non-medically productive activities necessitated by our private pay insurance based HC system consume roughly 1/3 of our total HC expenditures ( Health Care Administrative Costs in the United States and Canada, 217 | Annals of Internal Medicine | American College of Physicians ). We should be able to realize similar savings. How does that bankrupt us?

The question is not the number of dollars but which dollar buckets do we use. Personally I think billionaires should be taxed out of existence. That degree of wealth concentration is bad news for maintenance of societies worth living in. The issue needs to be re-framed from typical sophmoric Ayn Rand-ish arguments; This is a useful intro and Thomas Piketty's Capital in the 21st Century tome is well worth reading:

To Tackle Inequality, We Need To Start Talking About Where Wealth Comes From | naked capitalism

Endless wars and an ever burgeoning MIC....that can bankrupt us but nobody seems to question it; So too can enormous tax breaks for the uber wealthy. Reference your history books for examples though it should be obvious on the face of it.

Continuing to ignore changes required by global climate change will get expensive.

If you think education is expensive, try the alternative. Even if Bernie gets elected and the Senate goes to the dems, that's when the real work of figuring out how far to go with this and that starts....the curve starts bending.

What's expensive is failing to recognize and respond sensibly to the signals of a changing world. That can get mighty expensive.

I'm off to do something productive.

I don't agree with confiscating the wealth of billionaires. I think we need to distinguish too between A Mike Bloomberg who started with nothing left a job at Solomon risked it all to start a company that not only employs thousands but contributes greatly to our GDP. vs a Donald Trump who continuously gets bailed out and probably has subtracted from this countries net wealth when you consider all the people and businesses he's bankrupted over the years. Not just people who invested with him but contractors who never got paid.

I don't disagree that we have a student loan and health care problem. I think we just disagree on how to solve it or whether we can tackle it in one big swoop or that Bernie has the managerial experience to get any of it accomplished. -Mike G

[gregl]

After last night I'm more convinced than ever that Sanders on the ticket would be an unmitigated disaster. No real record of passing legislation in the Senate and taken in aggregate his plans would bankrupt the country.

The country is already bankrupt. The current (and all past...) administrations just can't admit it. With the current administration, the bankruptcy deepens with military and border wall spending on top of tax cuts. A future administration will deepen the bankruptcy with other spending. Bottom line is we are all screwed when there is a reckoning/accounting for our country's finances.

Greg